4ENCLAVE

A new home for the 4th Edition of the Worlds Oldest Roleplaying Game
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log in  

Share | 
 

 How would you design the 4e PHB?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Felorn Gloryaxe
Epic Adventurer
Epic Adventurer
avatar

Posts : 367
Join date : 2013-05-16
Location : United States

Character sheet
Name: Felorn Gloryaxe
Class: Fighter
Race: Dwarf

PostSubject: How would you design the 4e PHB?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:51 pm

How would you re-design the 4e PHB?

I know I can't be the only one who wishes the PHB was different, not only in content but in layout. So this thread is really just a thread to share ideas and wishes about what we hoped or wanted the 4e PHB to be like.

Personally I liked most of what was in the PHB. But I felt that is was lacking. Both from a design standpoint and a few cases of content.

The PHB was pushing around 320 pages. Which is pretty darn big for a PHB. So really I would rather not add too much extra (especially classes) because the book would become even bigger. But here is basically what I would add:

- I would add more non-magic weapons, armor, and equipment. I like more gear what else can I say? Not to mention it would take up but another page or so.

- I would remove all the magic items from the PHB. That belongs in the DMG IMO. Plus it would save 32 pages. Perhaps there would just be a chapter discussing what they are and how to equip them.

- More emphasis on Rituals. If you seen my previous posts you know how I feel about rituals. I wanted to seem more of them, and more lore.

- Bring Martial Practices from Martial Power 2 into the mix. I would put them in the Ritual Chapter making it Rituals & Martial Practices.

- I may get some flak for this but I would remove the the Warlock from the PHB entirely. I would put that class in a different PHB. I would instead put the Druid. Not only would that introduce another power source making it a little more varied but we would also have had a 2nd controller from the get go (and it would make the amount of strikers equal to the amount of other classes)... plus it probably would've meant more rituals...

- A longer Adventuring chapter with more on improv and how players can do that successfully in their surrounding. This would only add a few pages if that to the chapter.

- A section towards the beginning probably in the Making character section that had a random background generator like that found in Dragon 422 to give players ideas of backgrounds and to get in the mindset of your character.

- Bring themes & backgrounds to the book. To begin with it would probably just be the generic backgrounds found in the PHB 2. And basic themes too. I would probably either place these at the end on the making characters chapter or make a chapter for these by themselves.

- Less Wayne Reynolds art. Sorry. Just not a fan.

- A different character sheet. I know I'm not the only one that dislikes this thing. I would've included a photocopiable page that has black power blocks, and a sheet devoted to rituals/martial practices, equipment, and character details with more room that what the original gave us.

- I would try to work in Hybrid classing guidelines at the back of the classes chapter. Instead of presenting the pieces of ever class like in the PHB 3 though I would just tell them the steps to combining them. This would prevent the need for Hybrid classing rules to comeback again in the next PHB. This would just have the guidelines and then players would take it from there.

_________________

D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

“The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear.” - H. P. Lovecraft

Like a Star @ heaven
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fjw70
Wannabe Adventurer
Wannabe Adventurer


Posts : 18
Join date : 2013-10-10

PostSubject: Re: How would you design the 4e PHB?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:04 pm

I have always wished the PH1 would have just been the heroic tier with classes like the barbarian and sorcerer added in. Then PH2 and PH3 would have done paragon and epic tier, respectively.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Garthanos
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 930
Join date : 2013-05-25
Location : Nebraska

Character sheet
Name: Garthanos
Class: Arcadian Knight
Race: Auld Worlder

PostSubject: Re: How would you design the 4e PHB?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:45 pm

Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:
How would you re-design the 4e PHB?

I know I can't be the only one who wishes the PHB was different, not only in content but in layout. So this thread is really just a thread to share ideas and wishes about what we hoped or wanted the 4e PHB to be like.

Personally I liked most of what was in the PHB. But I felt that is was lacking. Both from a design standpoint and a few cases of content.

The PHB was pushing around 320 pages. Which is pretty darn big for a PHB. So really I would rather not add too much extra (especially classes) because the book would become even bigger. But here is basically what I would add:

- I would add more non-magic weapons, armor, and equipment. I like more gear what else can I say? Not to mention it would take up but another page or so.
- I would remove all the magic items from the PHB. That belongs in the DMG IMO. Plus it would save 32 pages. Perhaps there would just be a chapter discussing what they are and how to equip them.

- More emphasis on Rituals. If you seen my previous posts you know how I feel about rituals. I wanted to seem more of them, and more lore.

- Bring Martial Practices from Martial Power 2 into the mix. I would put them in the Ritual Chapter making it Rituals & Martial Practices.

- I may get some flak for this but I would remove the the Warlock from the PHB entirely. I would put that class in a different PHB. I would instead put the Druid. Not only would that introduce another power source making it a little more varied but we would also have had a 2nd controller from the get go (and it would make the amount of strikers equal to the amount of other classes)... plus it probably would've meant more rituals...

- A longer Adventuring chapter with more on improv and how players can do that successfully in their surrounding. This would only add a few pages if that to the chapter.

- A section towards the beginning probably in the Making character section that had a random background generator like that found in Dragon 422 to give players ideas of backgrounds and to get in the mindset of your character.

- Bring themes & backgrounds to the book. To begin with it would probably just be the generic backgrounds found in the PHB 2. And basic themes too. I would probably either place these at the end on the making characters chapter or make a chapter for these by themselves.

- Less Wayne Reynolds art. Sorry. Just not a fan.

- A different character sheet. I know I'm not the only one that dislikes this thing. I would've included a photocopiable page that has black power blocks, and a sheet devoted to rituals/martial practices, equipment, and character details with more room that what the original gave us.

- I would try to work in Hybrid classing guidelines at the back of the classes chapter. Instead of presenting the pieces of ever class like in the PHB 3 though I would just tell them the steps to combining them. This would prevent the need for Hybrid classing rules to comeback again in the next PHB. This would just have the guidelines and then players would take it from there.
Hybrids. Themes and Backgrounds hells yes. More Rituals and Martial Practices (assuming the latter get TLC they need sure)
While we are at it perhaps give everyone Skill Powers instead of inserting them..

Moving magic items to the DMG is ok unless you have item creation and commonality as a feature of your campaign (its not in mine - when it is you want a player facing resource for them to have)... so yeh I still approve of the move.

Warlock turned in to a very flavorful class but didnt impress me in its first manifestation.... but I think the Druid had enough tradition it needed initial incarnation

I might have identified each source as having a set of source powers so that any class of that type could take those powers in addition to class specific ones. So every martial class can do a switching places style attack for instance. Initially it isnt bad but eventually having them separated out to avoid repeat is I think a good idea as is having classes which are not just Martial and not just Divine.

I know slight rules shifting in there but mostly its still about organizing.




_________________
Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.dyasdesigns.com/kingsmagic.html
cyvaris
Heroic Adventurer
Heroic Adventurer
avatar

Posts : 93
Join date : 2013-09-30
Location : Florida, USA

PostSubject: Re: How would you design the 4e PHB?   Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:00 am

Spinning off what I put in a different thread, I would have included the "Skill Power" Utility powers as a big part of the game. Each player would have been three to four of them at level one and gain a few more for free at later levels. One thing that grinds my gears are some of those Skill Powers are "duhh I should be able to do that with this skill" while others are "wow that is a really cool way to use this skill". Yes, yes, I know it might "limit" roleplay, but as long as you cut out the "no duhh" powers and keep the "wow" ones, Skill Powers were really darn cool mechanically. Sadly, they always get overlooked it seems because they aren't a massive mechanical benefit.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Chris24601
Epic Adventurer
Epic Adventurer


Posts : 429
Join date : 2013-05-17
Age : 43
Location : Fort Wayne, IN

Character sheet
Name:
Class:
Race:

PostSubject: Re: How would you design the 4e PHB?   Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:46 pm

I wonder if a better way to do skills wouldn't be to replace the skill training with skill powers (ie. instead of four trained skills you'd instead select four skill powers).
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cyvaris
Heroic Adventurer
Heroic Adventurer
avatar

Posts : 93
Join date : 2013-09-30
Location : Florida, USA

PostSubject: Re: How would you design the 4e PHB?   Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:09 am

That would be interesting, but again people might have restrictive issues. Heck I might go so far as to grant pretty much every Skill Power to players save for a few of them. I just like how Skill Powers really buff out 4e skills and make them into something far more versatile and useful then what was initially presented.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Felorn Gloryaxe
Epic Adventurer
Epic Adventurer
avatar

Posts : 367
Join date : 2013-05-16
Location : United States

Character sheet
Name: Felorn Gloryaxe
Class: Fighter
Race: Dwarf

PostSubject: Re: How would you design the 4e PHB?   Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:41 am

I too like skill powers and probably would've tried to fit them into the original PHB as well. They really added that extra layer of customization skills needed.

_________________

D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

“The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear.” - H. P. Lovecraft

Like a Star @ heaven
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Chris24601
Epic Adventurer
Epic Adventurer


Posts : 429
Join date : 2013-05-17
Age : 43
Location : Fort Wayne, IN

Character sheet
Name:
Class:
Race:

PostSubject: Re: How would you design the 4e PHB?   Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:06 pm

To clarify my suggestion, I'm not saying to do away with the usual skill checks... Just that the advantages of training in a skill be a power instead of just bigger numbers. So if need to climb you'd do a Strength check, but someone might have a skill power that let's them climb twice as quickly, another might have one that keeps them from failing by enough to fall.

Basically, anyone can still do anything... Some people just have edges that make some tasks easier for them.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Garthanos
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 930
Join date : 2013-05-25
Location : Nebraska

Character sheet
Name: Garthanos
Class: Arcadian Knight
Race: Auld Worlder

PostSubject: Re: How would you design the 4e PHB?   Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:20 pm

Chris24601 wrote:
To clarify my suggestion, I'm not saying to do away with the usual skill checks... Just that the advantages of training in a skill be a power instead of just bigger numbers. So if need to climb you'd do a Strength check, but someone might have a skill power that let's them climb twice as quickly, another might have one that keeps them from failing by enough to fall.

Basically, anyone can still do anything... Some people just have edges that make some tasks easier for them.
Developed properly could be pretty cool.

_________________
Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.dyasdesigns.com/kingsmagic.html
cyvaris
Heroic Adventurer
Heroic Adventurer
avatar

Posts : 93
Join date : 2013-09-30
Location : Florida, USA

PostSubject: Re: How would you design the 4e PHB?   Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:43 pm

That could work well, though it would get really complex and bogged down fast....I sort of like it though. Still, you'd probably need to either give a bunch of skill powers, or still have a base line simple skill roll for "normal" skill stuff. I like this though, putting it in my "redesign 4e as a total game I really, reallylike" back pocket.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: How would you design the 4e PHB?   

Back to top Go down
 
How would you design the 4e PHB?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
4ENCLAVE :: 4th Edition :: 4e General Discussion-
Jump to: