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 Legends Prove Real - Martial Too Mundane?

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Garthanos
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PostSubject: Re: Legends Prove Real - Martial Too Mundane?   Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:36 pm

It occurs to me that the effect of twin strike or rapid shot might be accomplished well with the flavor of fewer arrows fired ;p -- Realistically an arrow might pass through more than one location threatening more enemies (especially since a hit doesnt necessarily ummm induce wounds or stop the arrow) heh.

I have an idea of trickshot arrows which count as more than 1 arrow ... ie for those who like tracking such things a trick shot arrow might be used to perform say a twin strike. (its nicely balanced and costs more of course)

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“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: Legends Prove Real - Martial Too Mundane?   Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:57 am

itaav wrote:
Dunno, I have actually never run into a DM who kept track of ammunition.


I do only for things like rocket launchers (not in D&D, obviously). Otherwise, I find it tedious and pointless, like most DMs I've met.

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PostSubject: Re: Legends Prove Real - Martial Too Mundane?   Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:20 pm

I have known some folk back in the day... players actually who liked to track even pretty mundane things. I think treasure tracking might have influenced them. Its certainly not up my allie.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: Legends Prove Real - Martial Too Mundane?   Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:12 am

Tracking ammo penalizes the martial/ammo based range character vs the implement based ranged character. I means the ranger or seeker could potentially be unable to use there best attacks while the wizard, sorcerer, warlock, and psion continue to blast away all day.
While that might be then fun and challenge some players like, I don't think that is really in the spirit of a 4e game. For PC's who primarily used ammo consuming ranged attacks, I usually just have them by double at level 1 and never worry about it again. If they ask about replenishing mundane ammo: lose 1 GP, you have a full compliment. 1 GP is trivial at any level. If they never ask, I don't worry about it.

If someone asks if they would ever run out of ammo... Does Legolas ever run out of arrows? Does Rambo ever have to reload?

If they ever really have a problem with verisimilitude, I just drop a endless quiver or the equivalent as a magic item. Done.

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PostSubject: Re: Legends Prove Real - Martial Too Mundane?   Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:17 am

Durriken wrote:
Tracking ammo penalizes the martial/ammo based range character vs the implement based ranged character.  I means the ranger or seeker could potentially be unable to use there best attacks while the wizard,  sorcerer, warlock, and psion continue to blast away all day.
Its likely a similar personality will also like tracking bat-quano or whatever the more mundane components spells might have (its not limited to martial vs arcane)
Durriken wrote:

While that might be then fun and challenge some players like, I don't think that is really in the spirit of a 4e game.  For PC's who primarily used ammo consuming ranged attacks, I usually just have them by double at level 1 and never worry about it again.  If they ask about replenishing mundane ammo: lose 1 GP, you have a full compliment.  1 GP is trivial at any level.  If they never ask, I don't worry about it.

If someone asks if they would ever run out of ammo... Does Legolas ever run out of arrows?  Does Rambo ever have to reload?

If they ever really have a problem with verisimilitude, I just drop a endless quiver or the equivalent as a magic item.  Done.

TjD
Sounds reasonable to me.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: Legends Prove Real - Martial Too Mundane?   Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:43 pm

If I missed someone already making this point, I apologize for the repeat...

In 4E, all characters beyond 1st level are assumed to be able to acquire mundane equipment without tracking cost. This is apparent in not only the way that the magic item prices are related versus mundane items. But also, the rules explicitly state that if you are creating a character starting above 1st level, you can have whatever mundane items you need (within reason).

It was said that the monetary cost of buying and tracking every single mundane arrow is completely negligible. 50 gp across 30 levels is less than trivial. Even 500 gp across 30 levels is trivial.

I've found that the only time that having the players track mundane ammunition is if it is built in to the challenge of surviving a remote area where replenishing things like ammo (and food and water) is part of the challenge. But even so, I think that a challenge can be created without the need to count every single arrow.

I know that I played an archer in the very last 3.5 game I ever played and we tracked my arrow usage. I would go around and recollect my arrows after combat and we even had to roll to see if the arrow was rendered unusable (like 1 in 6 or something). It was neat at first, but it became tedious after about 5 levels.

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PostSubject: Re: Legends Prove Real - Martial Too Mundane?   Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:06 pm

A technique I recall other games employ amount to ... well having "out of ammo" be a plot/story event. In a game like fate it might involve giving the player Fate points although in Fate the player might have taken an aspect that makes them vulnerable to the event.

Another technique I have heard is a bit like having a saving throw to determine if you may be running low.(after the save failed then you are aware you only have a small number available this fight and will have to conserve your use).

In general amounts to most of the time you aren't tracking but something came up... and now you need to.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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Garthanos
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PostSubject: Re: Legends Prove Real - Martial Too Mundane?   Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:09 pm

And of course the point of the thread wasn't wallowing in mundane but seeing that the game even though awesome isnt as far out there as people seem to think.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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