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 What is a Power List?

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Tequila Sunrise
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PostSubject: What is a Power List?   Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:50 pm

Fluff-wise, what do you think a power list is?

1. Powers that your particular PC is familiar with, thanks to his or her particular mentor.

2. The powers that are frequently used by members of your PC's class.

3. A representative selection of powers that members of your PC's class are able to master.

4. A comprehensive list of powers that members of your PC's class are able to master.

5. Something else.

The following question doesn't really apply to 4e RAW, but if you've ever played with 'power book' house rules, or played other editions: Would your response change if I asked you the same of spells, psionic powers, vestiges, utterances, soul-binds, maneuvers, and whatever other class-based lists of quasi-magical widgets we could think of?

Finally, what does this imply about off-list spells that your character may find or research?

A. Your power/spell list is not comprehensive or even representative of everything your character may master. Your PC may find or learn pretty much any unique power/spell, or any power/spell from any other power/spell list.

B. Your power/spell list is not comprehensive, but it is representative of the kind of powers/spells your character can master. Your PC may find or research unique powers/spells, but not powers/spells that radically depart from what your power/spell list includes, or powers/spells from other power/spell lists.

C. Your power/spell list is comprehensive. It represents the full extent of everything your PC can hope to master.

D. Something else.

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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:35 pm

For me a power list is and always has been the list of powers that appear on my character sheet (same with spell lists in previous editions). I really don't give it any thought beyond that (every campaign in past editions was so fast paced that the notion of stopping to research a spell was utterly alien to me... I pretty much always just relied on the spells I gained on level-up).
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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:16 pm

Not sure I see much fluff in what you are saying ie what is a class? without fluff for that what does your 2-4 mean? ... And you are mixing up known ones and ones available due to class (you can have access to abilities of 3 classes).The question is well ummm vague?

Powers are active tricks and stunts and feats of extraordinary capability and sometimes sets of abilities which allow one to create a similar effect for instance knockdown assault might be basically a martial art like jujitsu..

Known Powers are those which your character can do reliably on a periodic basis obviously one can do other stunts although at some level these will be related ones and they are generally less reliable though some can situationally be even more powerful (page 42 with open-mindedness is not just mundane actions), powers that are not in your class don't normally fit your archetype and take more design resources to bring under your standard repertoire...

Shrug

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One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:38 pm

Chris24601 wrote:
For me a power list is and always has been the list of powers that appear on my character sheet (same with spell lists in previous editions). I really don't give it any thought beyond that (every campaign in past editions was so fast paced that the notion of stopping to research a spell was utterly alien to me... I pretty much always just relied on the spells I gained on level-up).
Honestly, I never really got the chance to research spells either. I guess I just can't help thinking about this sort of thing.  sunny 

Garthanos wrote:
Not sure I see much fluff in what you are saying ie what is a class? without fluff for that what does your 2-4 mean? ...  And you are mixing up known ones and ones available due to class (you can have access to abilities of 3 classes).The question is well ummm vague?
Go by default class fluff; most of them place members of the class into some sort of in-game group, even if it's not an organized group. For example, there are no warlock societies, but they all have some sort of connection to some supernatural non-deific being.

The questions refer to the class lists of powers, not the powers that any particular character has.

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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:08 pm

Class fluff is just a mutable as power fluff and any realistic game world group very likely needs multiple roles.  To me classes are special heroic archetypes, not game world groups. Lots of characters who fight without being fighters... if you get that? In fact most probably arent.

Power lists are enablers for the underlying roles they define a part of the route to accomplish them and beyond that the flavor and occasional limitations there of are also reflectors of source flavor (though class features can have some impact and act as modifiers to the power....  as powers are as I said about active things your character can do so they are only part of the picture).

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One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:48 pm

Or maybe the answer is Classes in general are about encouraging the archetypes and tropes associated with those... powers are some of the tools towards that end.

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“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:32 am

Garthanos wrote:
Class fluff is just a mutable as power fluff...
So, "It depends."

Gotcha.

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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:03 pm

Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Fluff-wise, what do you think a power list is?

1. Powers that your particular PC is familiar with, thanks to his or her particular mentor.

2. The powers that are frequently used by members of your PC's class.

3. A representative selection of powers that members of your PC's class are able to master.

4. A comprehensive list of powers that members of your PC's class are able to master.

5. Something else.

2, I think.


Quote :

Finally, what does this imply about off-list spells that your character may find or research?

A. Your power/spell list is not comprehensive or even representative of everything your character may master. Your PC may find or learn pretty much any unique power/spell, or any power/spell from any other power/spell list.

B. Your power/spell list is not comprehensive, but it is representative of the kind of powers/spells your character can master. Your PC may find or research unique powers/spells, but not powers/spells that radically depart from what your power/spell list includes, or powers/spells from other power/spell lists.

C. Your power/spell list is comprehensive. It represents the full extent of everything your PC can hope to master.

D. Something else.


B.

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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:54 pm

Tequila Sunrise wrote:


Finally, what does this imply about off-list spells that your character may find or research?

A. Your power/spell list is not comprehensive or even representative of everything your character may master. Your PC may find or learn pretty much any unique power/spell, or any power/spell from any other power/spell list.

B. Your power/spell list is not comprehensive, but it is representative of the kind of powers/spells your character can master. Your PC may find or research unique powers/spells, but not powers/spells that radically depart from what your power/spell list includes, or powers/spells from other power/spell lists.

C. Your power/spell list is comprehensive. It represents the full extent of everything your PC can hope to master.

D. Something else.

I would have to say my view would be closest to 'B'.

Speaking of... Has there ever been any rules or guidelines on researching and designing powers?


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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:56 pm

I always daydreamed about a campaign where I had the luxury of having the players 'discover' or
'acquire' spells, as part of the adventure path. As opposed to just picking them out of the Player's Guide when they leveled up.

In 4e, I've toyed with the concept that you can only choose 'Powers' that your mentor has... since a person can't really teach what they don't know. So if you wanted to take your character in a different direction, you'd need to find a new 'master' to teach you. It would be interesting, I think, if anyone had the time to devote the process, and if I, as a DM, could make the process fun.
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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:38 pm

Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:

Speaking of... Has there ever been any rules or guidelines on researching and designing powers?
Not that I know of; which is a damn shame!

Kazadvorn wrote:
In 4e, I've toyed with the concept that you can only choose 'Powers' that your mentor has... since a person can't really teach what they don't know. So if you wanted to take your character in a different direction, you'd need to find a new 'master' to teach you. It would be interesting, I think, if anyone had the time to devote the process, and if I, as a DM, could make the process fun.
I vaguely remember that in 2e, the difference between a wizard and an archmage* was that one depended on finding/bartering for spells, while the other could research and invent his own. I don't think it was a hard line; rather it was simply that low-level wizards generally couldn't afford to do spell research.

But I think it'd be cool if at some point -- maybe 11th or 21st level -- if PCs go from "I know what my master taught me" to "I have become the master, and can teach myself new tricks." I'm not sure I'd restrict PCs to a selection of powers narrower than their class list prior to master-hood, but who knows? Maybe it'd work well!

*This was of course before there were archmage PrCs or epic destinies; 'archmage' was simply an in-game term for 'high level wizard.'

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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:23 pm

Rituals are where most spell learning can currently be found in 4e environment and that can be a lot of magic.

I conceived of something I called invocations which were in effect arcane/divine/primal skills with the same kind of versatility of a skill - in fact my first ideas along these lines started as a reflavoring of the thieving skill - ie they can be used in skill challenges and applied to as many things as a skill ... in effect at-will magics - take that and punch it up a notch with something akin to martial practices say arcane practices? where you spend healing surges to fuel the enhancement of these invocations and tadah its kind of a new organically learned magic system.

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One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:27 am

Grand Master Training  is pretty much the place where you enable open ended story driven learning of new combat powers.... ie put it in terms of the magic item economy, availability then is DM handled, but it can then  be sought out and acquired from masters.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: What is a Power List?   Fri May 09, 2014 8:57 am

Quote :
What is a power list?

A miserable pile of abilities!  Twisted Evil 
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