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 What I love about 4e

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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:27 pm

chaosfang wrote:
Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:
To be honest. The more I play other editions of D&D the more I wanna come back to 4e. I recently started running a 3e game again. And boy... Is 4e a cleaner system. Plus it's a little more fun to run.
If I had to DM D&D, it will have to be D&D 4E, bar none.  Pre-4E has its charms, especially with a rocking DM, but otherwise I prefer the idea of D&D 4E.

[ Implementation well... that's for a different topic, but suffice to say that as long as the system has that same spirit of D&D 4E, I'd definitely go for it Smile]

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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:58 pm

chaosfang wrote:
Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:
To be honest. The more I play other editions of D&D the more I wanna come back to 4e. I recently started running a 3e game again. And boy... Is 4e a cleaner system. Plus it's a little more fun to run.
If I had to DM D&D, it will have to be D&D 4E, bar none.  Pre-4E has its charms, especially with a rocking DM, but otherwise I prefer the idea of D&D 4E.

[ Implementation well... that's for a different topic, but suffice to say that as long as the system has that same spirit of D&D 4E, I'd definitely go for it Smile]
When I try and think of charms f older systems I really can't see them. The only thing 3e really had that I liked was it's Multi-classing because the stories you could tell with it. But in terms of AD&D I can't think of too many things other than lore that the game has in it's favor.

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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:11 pm

Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:
The only thing 3e really had that I liked was it's Multi-classing because the stories you could tell with it.
In terms of storytelling I found D&D 4E's multiclassing to be different, but even more sensible than any other edition's, even if it was the weakest sort of multiclassing among the editions at the mechanical level. I just kinda wish I didn't have to be a bard just to multiclass to more than one class.
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:41 pm

chaosfang wrote:
(snip) If I had to DM D&D, it will have to be D&D 4E, bar none.  Pre-4E has its charms, especially with a rocking DM, but otherwise I prefer the idea of D&D 4E. (snip)]
I feel the same way.

There's a lot to like about 3.xE and the earlier editions - and we wouldn't have 4E without 3.xE sorting out the underlying mess of 1E/2E - but it's just too annoying to run as a DM.

A level 6 standard monster built according to the correct maths is an appropriate threat for a level 6 character in 4E. And I can build it in a few minutes.

I can't do that in 3.xE. I can spend hours cranking out a CR 6 monster or NPC - theoretically a challenge for a part of 4 level 6 characters - and it could die in a surprise attack, be an appropriate threat or absolutely murder the entire party. You simply can't tell and it still takes a long time to do it right.

On a more positive note, 4E took the basic framework of 3.xE combat and made it truly cinematic. My group and I love that. Scything through minions, being held back by soldiers and then finally defeating the BBEG artillery or controller - that's cinematic.

And I could create the stat blocks for about 10 of those 4E creatures in about the time it would take me to do a single stat block in 3.xE.

However, I don't hate 3.xE and I certainly don't slam it in person or on messageboards. It was necessary and it was a huge advance from 1E and 2E. Sadly, Next is going back to the poisoned Gygaxian well of random design, limited understanding of maths and half-arsed ideas which suggests 6E will be 3.xE redux. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:00 pm

I loved that 4E emphasised the tactical combat aspects with a robust system of mechanics. Like others have said, developing an encounter that could challenge the party at a predictable level was pretty easy to do.

I also loved that 4E didn't need to have a great big set of rules for role-playing. I've always felt that there is no need to have a system of mechanics to tell a player what to role-play. I don't mind a simple system for resolution (Bluff vs. Insight for example) but I don't need a big system that uses character resources to tell a player that they are Diplomatic.

I did like the concept of "roles" although some of the later classes (essentials) really started to blur those concepts a bit.

And I think my favourite part of 4E was the power system. The at-will, encounter, daily, utility was, in my opinion, genius! And really, even though some of the essentials classes deviated from that, it still was a great system.

Put simply, I have enjoyed 4E over every single edition that I ever played (I started with Basic in 1981 and played AD&D 1e/2e, 3.0, 3.5, and 4E).

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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:12 pm

Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:
I really have found that 4e is probably the most mechanically stable D&D system. It is very easy to work with. It has a strong core and plenty of wiggle room. But one of the biggest things about 4e I liked was....

RITUALS

My only complaint with rituals was that there wasn't enough of them, nor was there enough lore.

Rituals really seemed like a last minute thing in 4e. Though oddly enough I find them to be one of the neatest things. I really do wish there were more of them though. There are only roughly 300. Of course you have attack spells, and prayers, but rituals were awesome. I also really wish WotC would have released a book that went more in depth into rituals: from how they worked, to how they were cast, even to what some of the components going into it would be like, as well as crunch like more ritual based feats and skill powers.

I've actually just recently compiled ever 4e ritual in a word document and while there are quite a few rituals there aren't near enough. I'm blaming it on Mike Mearls. Rituals became fairly rare after Mike took 4e over.
Well the prices of low level rituals are often way to cheap at very high level and low level rituals felt expensive till a few levels went by.... so I wouldn't say there weren't any issues with them.

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One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:20 pm

There are two features of D&D that really attracted me all the way back and I hadnt totally identified them at the time.

One was how it invoked and encouraged archetypes and the other was how it had a potential to do the same for heroic behavior.

I love that fourth edition was that game.

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One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:52 pm

I agreed with your whole post but particularly wanted to call this out:

skwyd42 wrote:
(snip)I also loved that 4E didn't need to have a great big set of rules for role-playing. I've always felt that there is no need to have a system of mechanics to tell a player what to role-play. I don't mind a simple system for resolution (Bluff vs. Insight for example) but I don't need a big system that uses character resources to tell a player that they are Diplomatic.(snip)
Exactly.

RP happens. We've been doing it since we were wee little lads and lasses. Not a lot of rule support is required... unless it's a pure RP game. It's not. It's D&D.
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:40 am

Pashalik wrote:
This is a bit of an older post I made a few months ago when a thoughtful AD&D player asked what it is 4e fans like so much about 4e.  He was actually interested in the answer, so I thought about it for awhile and gave him this.  I have reposted it here by request(with some cleanup editing, naturally).

Clarity of Rules:
 
Balance:
 
NPCs Not Using PC Rules:
 
Roles:
 
Lore:
 
Ease of DMing:
 
Rituals:
 
Less Random Death/More Dynamic Combat:
 
Healing Surges:
 
You ought to preserve this put it in a blog or wiki or something

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One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:21 pm

Did the original poster also do this blog post?

http://4thmaster.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/why-4e-fans-love-4e/

I love that blog.

The more I play 4e the more I appreciate it and the less I want yo play other games. Sometimes I will look at other RPGs and think they are pretty cool but then I start thinking about how 4e does a lot of things better and that I would rather just play 4e.
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:46 pm

Fjw70 wrote:
Did the original poster also do this blog post?

http://4thmaster.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/why-4e-fans-love-4e/

I love that blog.

The more I play 4e the more I appreciate it and the less I want yo play other games. Sometimes I will look at other RPGs and think they are pretty cool but then I start thinking about how 4e does a lot of things better and that I would rather just play 4e.
Looks like the owner could be someone on this forum. Considering they link to this forum in the comments.

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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:46 am

Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:
Fjw70 wrote:
Did the original poster also do this blog post?

http://4thmaster.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/why-4e-fans-love-4e/

I love that blog.

The more I play 4e the more I appreciate it and the less I want yo play other games. Sometimes I will look at other RPGs and think they are pretty cool but then I start thinking about how 4e does a lot of things better and that I would rather just play 4e.
Looks like the owner could be someone on this forum. Considering they link to this forum in the comments.
LOL, that's how I found out about this forum. I mentioned I loved that "why 4e fans love 4e" post, and the author responded with that link.

I agree with that whole post.

The only thing I can add is that 4e was the first edition I've played/DMed where at some point, a few months into DMing, the rules just _clicked_ in my head. I felt I really understood them. I felt confident enough to start playing around with hacking, changing, tweaking, etc. Not because I had to, or my group NEEDED a house rule because something could be abused, or was being abused, or made people mad. I even thought: "wow, according to this system, the monk could fit into a psionic power source as a psionic striker." That was about 18 months before the PHB 3 came out.

That never happened to me with 1, 2, 3, or 3.5 editions.
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:01 pm

seti wrote:
Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:
Fjw70 wrote:
Did the original poster also do this blog post?

http://4thmaster.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/why-4e-fans-love-4e/

I love that blog.

The more I play 4e the more I appreciate it and the less I want yo play other games. Sometimes I will look at other RPGs and think they are pretty cool but then I start thinking about how 4e does a lot of things better and that I would rather just play 4e.
Looks like the owner could be someone on this forum. Considering they link to this forum in the comments.
LOL, that's how I found out about this forum. I mentioned I loved that "why 4e fans love 4e" post, and the author responded with that link.

I agree with that whole post.

The only thing I can add is that 4e was the first edition I've played/DMed where at some point, a few months into DMing, the rules just _clicked_ in my head. I felt I really understood them. I felt confident enough to start playing around with hacking, changing, tweaking, etc. Not because I had to, or my group NEEDED a house rule because something could be abused, or was being abused, or made people mad. I even thought: "wow, according to this system, the monk could fit into a psionic power source as a psionic striker." That was about 18 months before the PHB 3 came out.

That never happened to me with 1, 2, 3, or 3.5 editions.
Well its good to have you aboard. And I also agree with your statement. 4e was truly the first D&D system that was easy o pick up and understand fairly quickly. Old editions relied too much on houserules and unclear rules and 3e... well it was 3e.

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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:41 pm

It's straying a bit from the topic but it seems like every time I stray from 4e a little bit I want to jump back into it full force.

Just recently I started running a 3e game at the request of some friends and now I REALLY want to play 4e. It seems like playing these other games just amplifies 4e's good qualities.

Anyone else have experiences similar to this?

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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:45 pm

Oh, god yes. I play in a PF group occasionally -- lots of one-shot adventures -- and every time I make a character, I miss 4e's elegance and relative simplicity!

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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:40 pm

Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:
It's straying a bit from the topic but it seems like every time I stray from 4e a little bit I want to jump back into it full force.

Just recently I started running a 3e game at the request of some friends and now I REALLY want to play 4e. It seems like playing these other games just amplifies 4e's good qualities.

Anyone else have experiences similar to this?

Yup!!  I played a few Pathfinder games last year with a friend and a group of his friends and even though the basic combat was similar to 4E, I didn't feel like I could do anything. Just move and attack and build your character to get buffs to attack.  No cool maneuvers, nothing that added flavor to the game experience.  

No thank you....  Thank goodness we are starting our gaming groups up again in the next couple weeks.
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:53 pm

I've reached a point where I'd rather use the 4e system for EVERYTHING...

I gave up on 3rd edition a long time ago and couldn't be persuaded to run that ever again, however recently one of my friends talked me into running a Deathwatch campaign... after the first few sessions I was itching to make a space marine version of 4th edition...
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:22 pm

I'll certainly use 4E (or a homebrewed/house-ruled version of it) for anything fantasy related.

I have my own system (based on the OWoD engine with a 4E 'question everything and rebuild from the ground up' approach applied to it) which has become my standard for modern/urban fantasy games.

Mutants & Masterminds is far and away my favorite superhero ruleset.

For Sci-Fi settings I've been using the WEG D6 game engine to pretty good effect.
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:49 pm

SgtFreakshow wrote:
I've reached a point where I'd rather use the 4e system for EVERYTHING...

I gave up on 3rd edition a long time ago and couldn't be persuaded to run that ever again, however recently one of my friends talked me into running a Deathwatch campaign... after the first few sessions I was itching to make a space marine version of 4th edition...

Heh... have you looked at UltraModern4 ?

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One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:50 pm

Nope, haven't... what is it and is it good?

The attempt really was an attempt to fuse together the 4e rules with the Inquisitor (boardgame) rules, since I used a variation of the Inquisitor rules previously for Warhammer 40k RPGs, they're clunky but pretty entertaining.

But anyhow, since I was at that point also working on my 4e clone I kinda scrapped the idea, I have a tendency to get sidetracked in my writing projects :/
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:11 pm

SgtFreakshow wrote:
Nope, haven't... what is it and is it good?

The attempt really was an attempt to fuse together the 4e rules with the Inquisitor (boardgame) rules, since I used a variation of the Inquisitor rules previously for Warhammer 40k RPGs, they're clunky but pretty entertaining.

But anyhow, since I was at that point also working on my 4e clone I kinda scrapped the idea, I have a tendency to get sidetracked in my writing projects :/

Havent used it but it looks like a very professionally produced cyberpunk to space opera adaptation based on 4e.

http://www.diasexmachina.com/Games-Ultramodern4.htm

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One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:00 am

Found this picture. I thought it was pretty cool, especially the 4e part.

Spoiler:
 

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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:43 am

I LOVE that picture! And it seems to be pretty accurate as well!

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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:25 am

Haha, that's a great picture!

It's not exactly how I'd describe AD&D 2e or 3.x, but 'the drow of D&D editions' is spot-on!

(I'm a little more critical of 2e, and a bit more positive about 3.x.)

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PostSubject: Re: What I love about 4e   Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:41 am

I just looked at that picture again and realized something. Since when do you carry a 5 foot pole? The PHB item lists always had a 10 foot pole!

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4ENCLAVE :: 4th Edition :: 4e General Discussion-
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