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 How is your 4e collection going?

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Felorn Gloryaxe
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PostSubject: How is your 4e collection going?   Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:39 am

I thought this might be a fun little thread were we can talk about what books we have, which ones we strongly recommend, how we really got a good deal on said item, and whatever else comes to mind when you think about your 4e books.

I've really been working on trying to get my 4e book collection going. There are just so many 4e books. And while I probably won't get any here are the ones I do  currently have (for this I'm only counting physical copies):

Core Rulebooks
- Player's Handbook
- Player's Handbook 2
- Player's Handbook 3

- Dungeon Master's Guide
- Dungeon Master's Guide 2

- Monster Manual

Essentials
- Heroes of the Fallen Lands
- The Monster Vault
- The Rules Compendium
- Master Dungeon Tiles Set
- Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale
- Deluxe DM Screen
- Red Box

Supplements
- The Underdark
- The Manual of the Planes
- Dungeon Delve
- The Demonomicon
- Player's Handbook Races: Tieflings
- Vor Rukoth
- Draconomicon: Metallic Dragons

Setting Specific
- The Forgotten Realms Player's Guide
- Neverwinter Campaign Setting

I've got so much left to get...  study 

Have you got an recommendations on what I should get next? I understand that there are some books that are rather useless... And some that are near mandatory (MM3). I've still got to get the other Essentials Player's Guide, as well as some of the Powers books. I'm currently in between 4e game but hope to get into one again soon.

My store recently put all there 4e stuff on sale for 50% and now 75% off. Though all that's left up there is stuff I've already got and don't need 2 copies of.

Also, if you haven't gotten it already (both) the Draconomicon is really a good book. Monster Math may be a bit outdated but the fluff is pretty good.

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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:34 pm

Hmm... It's quicker to say what I don't have. I don't have the Red Box, Vor Rukoth, or any of the adventures.

My brother's borrowed several of my books, though. So when I say 'have' I mean 'own'. Wink

I'd advise you to get MM3 (obviously), plus Heroes of the Feywild and Heroes of the Elemental Chaos. Oh, and The Shadowfell: Gloomwrought and Beyond.

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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:25 pm

My collection has grown quite a bit this year due to Amazon deals. Smile

Player's Books
- Player's Handbooks 1-3
- Adventure's Vault 1
- Forgotten Realms and Eberron Player's Guide
- All the Powers Books (Martial Power 1 and 2, Divine Power, ect)
- Heroes of Shadow and the Feywild

DM Books
- DMG 1 and 2
- MM 1 and 2
- Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale
- Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium
- Dark Sun Creature Catalog
- Forgotten Realms and Eberron Campaign Guides
- Neverwinter Campaign Guide
- Manual of the Planes
- Planes Above and Planes Below
- Book of Veil Darkness

Supplements
- Dungeon Master Kit
- Monster Vault
- Dungeon, Wilderness, and City Tile Box Sets
- Shadowfell: Gloomwrought and Beyond
- Madness at Gardmore Abby
- And Various Adventures in Forgotten Realms and some from the previously mentioned box sets.

If I had to give any suggestions on books to get, I would suggest Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium because it is basically the DM's Adventure Vault.  It has uncommon and rare magic items that include story hook ideas, cursed items, artifacts, buildings and trade goods PCs can purchase, the rules for running hirelings and henchman, not to mention how to run gambling in your game.  the book has a lot more then that and I was very happy when I got this book.  As I sit right now, I consider it one of the core books along with DMG 1 and 2.
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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:36 pm

As with Duskweaver its quicker to say what I don't have...

Don't Have
Red Box
The fluff-only drow city book
possibly a couple of the later adventures

As to recommendations...

Player-side:
Heroes of the Feywild: By far one of the best player options books and easily on par with PHB1 and 2 in terms of usefulness (yes, its more important than even PHB3).
Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdom: Not quite as good as Fallen Lands, but it definitely has its place if you're okay with Essentials. The Hexblade is fun and the simple Scout and Hunter both make excellent second PC's if you're ever running a game where you need one or more people to run two characters just to get all the roles covered (for groups of 2-3 players we routinely do 2 PC's each).

GM-Side:
Monster Manual 3: first monster book to use the new and improved math and boy does it show.
Dark Sun Creature Catalog: Even if you're never planning on running in the Dark Sun setting, the monsters (which use the improved MM3/Monster Vault math) are easily adapted to any campaign.
Adventurer's Vault 1 and 2, plus Mordenkienen's Magnificent Emporium: Because having interesting magic items is always a plus.
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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:58 pm

Chris24601 wrote:

Adventurer's Vault 1 and 2, plus Mordenkienen's Magnificent Emporium: Because having interesting magic items is always a plus.

I really do want to get these but the Adventurer's Vault 1 is pretty damned expensive. Didn't Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium have a lot of Adventurer's Vault reprint?

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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:16 pm

MME had SOME reprints I believe, but I'd say less than 25% crossover between it and AV1. I am extremely grateful to have picked it up when it first came out.

That said, there is nothing in AV1 so absolutely critical that your own game can't run without it. It's just a very solid addition to the magic items lists.
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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:42 am

Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:
Chris24601 wrote:

Adventurer's Vault 1 and 2, plus Mordenkienen's Magnificent Emporium: Because having interesting magic items is always a plus.

I really do want to get these but the Adventurer's Vault 1 is pretty damned expensive. Didn't Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium have a lot of Adventurer's Vault reprint?

The Alchemy sections have some reprints between Adventure Vault 1 and Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium, like Universal Solvent and Goodnight Tincture, but that is about it.  I know I was reluctant to get Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium because I heard the same thing, but once I actually got the books in my hand and went through them, it was obvious that the information was different.  I don't have AV 2, so I cannot check that source.

So to answer your question, no it doesn't and the little bit that is in there isn't anything to get worked up about.  One book is for players, the other is for the DM.

As for pricing, keep an eye on Amazon.com.  Once and a blue moon (once every 3 to 4 months actually), you will get some one who just wants to unload their copy and they will be selling it for way cheaper then the rest of the listed prices.
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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:45 am

How do you feel about PDF's vs. physical books? I and growing more and more attracted to PDF's. The ability to drop them onto my laptop and open up whichever I need during lunch or other breaks when I want to look something up. Particularly since our web filters block access to the compendium and other tools. I've also gotten very comfortable reading on electronic devices in general.
It is interesting how some 4e books have continued to command a high price. Adventurer's Vault 1, DM's Kit, and Heroes of the Feywild in particular.
As far as the essentials players books go, I liked Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms better. I thought the classes had more flavor.
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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:06 am

I can't remember which books I specifically have as I rarely take them out. I have a PDF for every book that I own and so I don't need to pull out the physical copy that often. I keep the Rules Compendium at the table during game sessions in case any of the players want to look up any rules. I also will let them have any book that I own available for them to reference while they are at my house.

I have many of the books on my Amazon wish list, but I find it hard to put out the money for them as most of my money is diverted to living expenses right now. And my local game store is mostly a comic book and M:tG store. They have some tabletop games and some RPG stuff, but their selection is minimal.

I will have to look through my cabinet. I know that 4E had a lot of books, but it was still a LOT less than 3.x stuff. I still have 4 boxes full of my old 3.x books that I will never use again. And that's not counting the 3.x stuff that I'm keeping just because I do like the flavor of stuff in it. I still have some dreams of using the offline character builder and making a few custom classes from some of the 3rd party supplements from 3.x books.

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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:21 am

Honestly? It might be an age thing, but I much prefer dead tree format. Laptops are great and all, but I always preferred to read laying on a sofa or with everything sprawled out on a bed rather than sitting down at a desk or table. Plus, you don't have to worry about how much battery power you've got left with a physical book and there's no eye-strain from looking at a glowing screen to read (which tires my eyes out a lot faster than paper and ink books.

Same goes for my character sheets... I could reference a sheet on my laptop screen if I had to, but I much prefer being able to look at an actual sheet which takes up far less room than a laptop (my usual layout is to split things into 8.5" x 5.5" half-sheets for easy reference).

As to HotFK vs. HotFL, I think they're both about equally useful. The interesting thing to me has been how our groups have slowly shifted to using E-classes more and more as time as passed (having my Essentials Options material helps a lot in that respect). I know for me, having a few repeatable use flexible encounter-based options is a lot easier to manage after a long day at work than a list of five once/encounter, three once/day and six or so utilities with variable use schedules.

If 5E had been more like a revised Essentials where every class was built more like the Knight, Slayer, Scout, Hunter and Elementalist, I would probably be raring to dig into a 5E campaign right about now. The lack of real Warlord (even if it had been a subclass) and the return of LFQW though makes my interest in 5E an impossibility and my owning pretty much everything 4E (including all the Dragon and Dungeon articles) is one of the reasons my attention has turned towards building my own system (which will be my second system, since I'd already rebuilt the Old World of Darkness game engine from the ground up into a much more 4E inspired system).
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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:58 pm

I'm old enough to have yelled at kids to get off my lawn...and have 4 of my own between 4 and 15 years old. I have been married nearly half my life. I often put documents, such as PDF's, in Google docs and bring them up on my PC at work or on a tablet or smart phone wherever I happen to be at the moment. I have found myself reclining on a couched reading books on my phone. While not as easy on the eyes as I find the ability to have a small library in one hand to be convenient.
I don't find the power requirements to be inconvenient. It is certainly been no more difficult than getting up to shelve a book and pick out another.
So, I don't really feel like I need to have any books in physical format. A PDF is great. ebooks are alright too as long as the reader software is available across multiple devices/operating systems.
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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:35 am

I also am old enough to have yelled at kids to get off of my lawn. But I don't recall ever doing that. I have yelled at cars to slow the f&%# down on my street, though. I even shook my fist at them.

I prefer the electronic format. But I think that is more to do with the fact that I don't actually have any time (or space) to sit down and read a source book through. Plus, since I only play 4E and I know the system rather well, I only ever need to reference stuff, not read it to learn it. So my purpose for reading I suppose is different.

At any rate, I really enjoy the fact that I have my entire 4E library of books on my iPad. And I don't need an internet connection to read them. And while I agree it isn't as convenient when jumping back and forth between different books, that is outweighed (to me) by the convenience of having all of my books with me wherever I go. And my iPad battery still lasts me for a very long time (1st gen iPad still going strong) so power issues are not actually issues for me.

I like having the books in my cabinet. And many of my players like to reference them that way. But PDF/electronic format is by far my preferred format.

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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:34 am

To be honest I slightly prefer PDFs. But only due to the fact that they are typically bookmarked for easy reference, and I don't like getting my books messed up. I enjoy being able to look at all my books on the shelf though.

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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:57 pm

books I own:
players handbook 1
players handbook 2
players handbook 3
dungeon masters guide 1
dungeon masters guide 2
monster manual 1
monster manual 2
monster manual 3
adventurer's vault 1
adventurer's vault 2
mordenkainen's magnificent emporium
forgotten realms campaign guide
forgotten realms players guide
eberron players guide
Eberron campaign setting
darksun campaign setting
darksun creature catalogue
manual of the planes
plane below
underdark
heroes of the forgotten kingdoms
heroes of the fallen lands
heroes of shadow
heroes of the feywild
shadowfel box set
draconomicon 1
draconomicon 2
dungeon delve
dungeon survival guide: into the unknown
halls on the undermountain
open grave
monster vault: threats to the nentier vale

3rd party
amethyst
amethyst: evolution
ultramodern4

books I do not own:
monster vault
madness at gardmore abbey
Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue
Neverwinter Campaign Setting

book I do not own but are low priority:
arcane power 1
arcane power 2
divine power
martial power 1
martial power 2
primal power
psionic power
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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:38 pm

WotC never published Arcane Power 2, so you won't have to worry about getting that one. Very Happy

How are those Amethyst books? I've seen them, but I haven't read any reviews of them.

>Smile

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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:16 am

skwyd42 wrote:
WotC never published Arcane Power 2, so you won't have to worry about getting that one. Very Happy

How are those Amethyst books? I've seen them, but I haven't read any reviews of them.

>Smile

I was thinking of adding them to my collection. They have stuff on using firearms in your 4E game and they have detailed rules on Naval Combat that look interesting. I haven't looked at it yet, but I want to see the similarities between what they came up with and the standard 4E rules for combat.

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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:09 am

If its anything like Ultramodern4 (they're by the same company and I'm told Ultramodern4 is fully useable with Amethyst ) then its definitely worth looking at.
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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:18 am

So the Amethyst isn't a setting, but just a "more stuff" book?

One of the things I'm considering is running a mini campaign where the party is the crew of a zeppelin-type airship. And so I have been looking for anything that gives some "swashbuckling" flair to the game.

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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:15 am

skwyd42 wrote:
WotC never published Arcane Power 2, so you won't have to worry about getting that one. Very Happy

How are those Amethyst books? I've seen them, but I haven't read any reviews of them.

>Smile

Well that'll help out. this list was from way back when my wife asked for a christmas list. I guess I wasn't paying attention to what was going on it.

As far as the amethyst books go, they are amazing for that modern feel, Amethyst has classes in the traditional 4e class structure while evolution has them rewritten in the essentials format. The rules alone add a whole host of weapons and gear and classwise you get:

Grounder: defender/controller - Gets a nice area denial power basically a ranged zone mark area.

Marshal: Defender/leader - Less of a healer but a nice buffer.

Operator: Leader/Striker - A cross between a medic/mechanic/rogue. He has some nice healing and a lot of abilities/powers that overdrive his weapons, making them step up in die damage.

Stalker: Defender/striker - Either your sniper or CQC specialist. Has a cool feature to add conditions based on how much you beathe defenses by. Ranging from slowed to stunned.

Evolution adds the vanguard, a melee specialist, with both versions, the essentials version and the tradition version.

Now amethyst is pretty cool, and the setting is rich and flavorful, but my personal favorite productof DEM is ultramodern4, It is basically d20 modern 4e. It splits classes into Ladders and Classes. A class is what you do, and a ladder is how you do it.

For example the Runner Ladder lets you sub Dex for Strength for attacks and athletics. The savant lets you sub Dex for Int for attacks. And a few others give you other various bonuses and allow classes to work with your set of attributes and skills. Ladders also have powers associated with them.

Classes are pretty much the same, but have about half the normal powers, as a lot of powers have been ported over to various ladders. So what you end up with is a lot of customization and a a few totally non combat classes. (not to say that you are not doing anything in combat, but you are manipulating the field or assisting allies.

Overall DEM has put out the best 4e 3pp suppliments, I'd suggest picking them up or at the very loeast check out the Ultramodern4 OGL http://www.rpgnow.com/product/103246/Ultramodern4---OGL
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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:39 pm

I have a decent collection started at this point. I feel like necessities I need to pick up include Monster Manual 3 and DMG 2. The only part of the essentials line I have is the red box starter - any opinions on the rest of them?

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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:12 am

Semi-Retired Gamer wrote:
I have a decent collection started at this point.  I feel like necessities I need to pick up include Monster Manual 3 and DMG 2.  The only part of the essentials line I have is the red box starter - any opinions on the rest of them?

The Monster Vault and Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale are must haves in my opinion.

The Monster Vault contains lot's of MM1 creatures that have been updated to the new monster math, loads of new fluff and lore that's actually pretty inspiring, and full adventure+map for a level 2 party, and lots of nifty little monster tokens.

The Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale on the other hand is probably the best monster book released. It expands our limited knowledge on 4e's core setting, as well as providing a slew of new and interesting monsters/organizations, all with loads of fluff to inspire the players and DM. Not to mention more monster tokens and a map.

The new DM screen is worth a buy too. It's got new art, and up to date rules on the back.

And I personally like the "Heroes of" series of player's books... But they are hardly necessary.

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PostSubject: Re: How is your 4e collection going?   Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:07 pm

Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:
Semi-Retired Gamer wrote:
I have a decent collection started at this point.  I feel like necessities I need to pick up include Monster Manual 3 and DMG 2.  The only part of the essentials line I have is the red box starter - any opinions on the rest of them?

The Monster Vault and Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale are must haves in my opinion...

The new DM screen is worth a buy too. It's got new art, and up to date rules on the back.

And I personally like the "Heroes of" series of player's books... But they are hardly necessary.

Thanks for the opinions on those products. I have some searching to do...

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