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 Please help with core world lore

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Verbannon
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PostSubject: Please help with core world lore   Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:43 pm

I can't find any solid sources about the core world's only decent region. That one they keep spotlighting in th Nerathi legend articles. With the Iron circle and Karkoth and the Nentir Vale. But where do I actually find the foundation info about this region?
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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:14 am

DMG and book from the DM Kit both have the most info on the Nentir Vale/Points of Light campaign setting. Also Monster Vault Threats to the Nentir Vale.
One of my favorite things about it is that it is not necessarily super fleshed out. You can kinda building things as you want.
There are a number of adventures and supplements that fit as well. The HPE adventure path. Gardmore Abbey, Hammerfast, Vor Rokoth. The race books for Dragonborn and Tiefling have some stuff as well. Heroes of the Feywild might be considered to be part of that setting. Gloomwrought and Heroes of Shadow. Plenty of stuff in the mags that you can use.
Lots of stuff out there. Lots of opportunity for you and your players to choose what you want in the setting and what you don't.
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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:27 am

Ugh... I would like to find out what about it has been fleshed out without having to look through supplements that I can't even find.And trying to piece together a bunch of tiny bits and pieces from here there and everywhere. Why would there be a neranthi legends column, with a map that highlights various kingdoms in that region. Without there being somewhere a general overview of the region.
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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:29 am

I'm mostly lacking info on the geopolitics and geography.
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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:13 pm

The 4E "default setting" was pretty much intentionally left vague. I think this was both to allow each player the freedom to develop their own campaign world and also to leave room for the designers at WotC to "drop in" stuff as new ideas came to them.

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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:19 pm

I just like the setting's lore but hate when I 'do something' then later read in some obscure magazine article that I got something major wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:26 pm

I didn't think they had that many major things worked out for that, so you can't really get much wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:36 pm

well recently I got the directly of Arkosia wrong. I thought it would be close to Nerath but apparently its actually centered, far, far to the south of the Core area. And Nerath's center is actually located just on the northern fringe of Arkosia's empire. And I still have no idea where Bael Turoth's ruined city of ash is.
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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:02 pm

That sounds like a lot of work!

Personally, I'd probably just make it work for my own campaign and then keep it that way if I was going to use it in future campaigns. At least it would be consistent for my players.

I don't think there has ever really been any single reference point for the little bit of stuff that has been done for that setting. If there was, it is likely gone in the "great 4E purge" at WotC.

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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:55 pm

Well if I ever get it all, I'l be sure to organize it and post it here.
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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:58 am

Their is a Dungeon article covering the Turathi city of Vor Kragal, City of Ash (issue 364). It says it was south, the heart of the war against Arkhosia.
As I understand from stuff in the mags, south of the Nentir Vale is Therund and Sarthel (which were booth part of Nerath) then some mountains and then the Iron Circle a bit farther south.
I guess that Arkhosia was where the the Iron Circle is and that Vor Kragal is someplace just south of the mountains where it would be close to Arkhosia.
I put the city of Nera on the Northern side of the mountain range, with Nerath stretching north to the northern edge of the Nentir Vale at its height.

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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:02 am

Conquest of Nerith has a world map. And if you are looking for more, it is all over the place. The DMG and Minster Vault, Threats to the Neniter Vale is a good place to start. I would also look at the Mark of Nerith novel and the Abyssal Plauge series. If you are looking for a Nerith gazetteer, you will have to build that, assuming someone here hasn't done so already and wants to share.

Keep in mind too, the lore of Nerith is all over the place. Every time you read a story about a magic item or there is a encounter in a supplement book, it is optional to be tied into the history of Nerith and the world that Nerith takes place. Use them as spring boards to come up with adventure ideas.

As for "getting it wrong", I am going to pull a page out if the 5E DMG. Every plane has dozens if not hundreds of mirror variant planes. They all equality exsist. So in your mirror variant, Arkhosia was further north then other variants. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:02 pm

It annoys me when people keep trying to say "Mirror variant, do what you want blah blah blah blah" As if I am too stupid to realize thats a viable option. But its an option I don't want to take. So please stop saying that people. I just want to be accurate with what lore is there. And I am getting rather sick of people ignoring what I want while telling me to just do what I want.

"Vor Kragal was the jewel of the southern tiefling empire and an epicenter of Bael Turath’s power in their brutal war against the dragonborn empire of Arkhosia."

"Far to the south, lost in the Trackless Wastes, rises a dun mountain, its once-jagged peak softened by relentless winds and scouring sands. Long ago, Io’vanthor stood "

So it looks like based on these two sentences that Bael Turoth was north of Arkosia and Nerath is centered north of Bael Turoth. Or probably centered in Bael Turoth' northern territory.
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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:27 pm

Well the reason people keep saying that is because the source material assumed that's what each DM would do. I would bet that there isn't a specific "single canonical source" for this setting. And since 4E is no longer the current edition, this setting will not likely ever have such a thing.

What little bits of the setting I've seen out there were vague anyway. So it will be tough to put it together. And you're possibly going to find inconsistencies or at least areas that are "not clearly defined".

Nobody is saying that you're stupid. What I think everyone is saying is that the task of sorting through all of the published material that might have any sort of tidbit of information is going to be difficult. And ultimately, it likely won't provide a full setting anyway. There will still be gaps and areas that are only vaguely defined. And you'll end up having to fill in those gaps yourself.

To me, if I had to do that much work to "fill in" a setting, I think I'd just prefer not spending the great amount of effort to dig out a sentence here and a paragraph there that will still only provide a general sense of the setting. In a situation like that, it seems more productive to me to just build it the way I want it to be. But that's just my opinion.

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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:17 am

The thing for me is that I just don't like some of the stuff and there is some stuff from other settings that I like so I omit some stuff and add other stuff.
Here's something I did: I don't like a loose pantheon. So I recast the gods in a close pantheon, adding in some of the dead gods because I like them (Nusemnee, Haramathor, Laeris). I add in Gruumsh to my panatheon cause orcs are just misunderstood savage killers. Lloth, Asmodeus, Bane and some of the other "evil" ones are now demon gods, not part of the pantheon (great for evil cults and bad guys). I split off Bahamut (and Tiamat [and Io]) as the Draconic gods - kinda separate but compatible with the pantheon. Now I need some other 'faith' options. Primal spirits is the first - what I termed "The Old Way" - where people worship the primal spirits. Instead of clerics, paladins, invokers... they have druids, wardens, seekers, shaman. But I'm not done. I steal The Church of the Silver Flame from Eberron. Put the silver flame as the flame eternal in Nera and the start of the church at the fall of Nerath - so the demon in the flame is the Ruler of Ruin mentioned in the lore. Now I have some real religion options for a world where gods are real other than 'pick a god from this list' and I've meshed those options right into the lore in a way that works for me.
I also like the Moon Catcher thing that was in Dragon, but I adapted it a little different. Tharya Acrid is shadar-Kai rather than tiefling and is a recurring NPC. When Iltani the Blue broke, it left rings around the planet - the rings of Iltani. I dropped the catastrophe dragon thing and the shards have become a power source for goblinoids to activate their spawning pools - goblinoids in my world are asexual and a birthed out of magic and mud and filth. Now I have no goblinoid women or children and my merry band of adventurers can happily carry out genocide without any moral quandaries. Everybody wins! Even the DM, who can produce and endless supply of enemies in the heroic tier. I also allude to some connection between the shardmind race and the pieces of Iltani, but won't build details unless the players pursue it. If they do, much of the detail will depend on them. I also mess with dragons (hermaphrodites, the whole lot, that's why they're called wyrms) and the connection to kobolds. Not originally my ideas, but I don't remember where they came from.
At the same time I leave plenty of space for things the players want to bring in. Like a big opening for dwarven history and variants like gold dwarves or heir of delzoun theme.
I find it more pleasing to have something unique. We are crafting a unique story rather than one that is part of someone else's story. Points of Light is a great framework to build on to make my setting.
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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:09 am

I treat it as a challenge not an.. art. Taking the information there then making a plot out of it is the challenge. Specifically looking at different elements and drawing clever connections between them. I've never really figured out how to tell a story in D&D. The player characters are almost too flat, and the players stubbornly resist any sort of development and when they do accept development they ham it up so much I wish they would stop. So instead I just occupy myself making encounters for the players around a background story that is mostly just me trying to make clever connections between various core setting elements.

And for that I need accurate information.
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PostSubject: Re: Please help with core world lore   Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:16 pm

Well, to start, why don't you start with what sources you have pulled from and we can see if we can help to fill gaps.
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