4ENCLAVE

A new home for the 4th Edition of the Worlds Oldest Roleplaying Game
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log in  

Share | 
 

 Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Garthanos
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 930
Join date : 2013-05-25
Location : Nebraska

Character sheet
Name: Garthanos
Class: Arcadian Knight
Race: Auld Worlder

PostSubject: Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...    Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:32 pm

Something that feels like a Swordmage and a Warlord.... and game balance

_________________
Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.dyasdesigns.com/kingsmagic.html
Honorbound
Heroic Adventurer
Heroic Adventurer


Posts : 106
Join date : 2013-11-12

Character sheet
Name:
Class:
Race:

PostSubject: Re: Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...    Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:58 pm

Same here. I look for caster-martial parity, concise and coherent mechanics, and a separate battlemage class.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Garthanos
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 930
Join date : 2013-05-25
Location : Nebraska

Character sheet
Name: Garthanos
Class: Arcadian Knight
Race: Auld Worlder

PostSubject: Re: Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...    Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:49 pm

This forum needs a thumbs up function Wink

_________________
Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.dyasdesigns.com/kingsmagic.html
Honorbound
Heroic Adventurer
Heroic Adventurer


Posts : 106
Join date : 2013-11-12

Character sheet
Name:
Class:
Race:

PostSubject: Re: Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...    Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:06 pm

It needs some activity first. Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fox Lee
0th-Level Adventurer
0th-Level Adventurer
avatar

Posts : 57
Join date : 2015-12-04
Age : 34
Location : NSW, Australia

Character sheet
Name: Fox Lee
Class: Social Justice Barbarian
Race: Stack of Trolls

PostSubject: Re: Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...    Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:50 am

Brutal weapons <3

And the acknowledgement that no matter the flavour the class was conceived with, I can use its mechanics to express whichever character I think it works for! A system where I can build for what I want to do, not what the designer is pretty sure a character with my job description should be able do.

_________________
Fox Lee: The Girl Your Mother Warned You About
Contributor of 4e bugfixes and updates for HeroLab
She Bites ◦ Invincible Ink
GameBriefcase - homebrew, variants, fixes, hacks, and further geekery
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.invincible.ink
skwyd42
Paragon Adventurer
Paragon Adventurer
avatar

Posts : 295
Join date : 2013-09-15
Age : 48
Location : Central California.

Character sheet
Name: Alain Smith IV
Class: Vampire
Race: Half-Elf

PostSubject: Re: Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...    Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:31 am

Honorbound wrote:
It needs some activity first. ;)

It has seen a little uptick lately. Which is always nice.

_________________
-skwyd
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Honorbound
Heroic Adventurer
Heroic Adventurer


Posts : 106
Join date : 2013-11-12

Character sheet
Name:
Class:
Race:

PostSubject: Re: Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...    Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:00 am

This is true.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lawlesslands
Wannabe Adventurer
Wannabe Adventurer
avatar

Posts : 14
Join date : 2017-01-14
Location : Manchester, England

PostSubject: Re: Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...    Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:07 am

I agree with what Fox said, what I love about 4e is the mechanics of the system and it's what I look for everywhere else.

Fox Lee wrote:
And the acknowledgement that no matter the flavour the class was conceived with, I can use its mechanics to express whichever character I think it works for! A system where I can build for what I want to do, not what the designer is pretty sure a character with my job description should be able do.

One of the things that people criticised 4e for was "There's no roleplaying! It's an MMO wannabe!" is what makes it so good.
If you need roleplaying built right in as an intrinsic part of your system then you need to get down to the gym and workout your imagination muscles.
Because the base mechanics are so sound it lets you go wild with how you re-skin and re-fluff anything you want.

4e is great because I feel like it's an engineering manual. I can pull the engine apart, I can analyse vertical or horizontal slices and add new pieces, new mechanisms, alter things. It feels like an oldschool Meccano or Lego kit where you have all these blocks and can build what you want - it makes a lot of other games feel like they give you the bricks, but they're all specialised and only make the one model on the front of the box.

Skill Challenges!
Another great tool in the kit. It's oldschool roleplaying codified into a simple set of mechanics (but whaaaaa, 4e doesn't have roleplaying!). If the party catch you off guard because they want to travel across a mountain range to visit a dwarven stronghold instead of entering the dungeon you spent last night designing then no big deal. I used to find myself torn between two extremes...

  • "Your travels will take you through 11 overland hexes, 4 grassland, 4 highland, 3 mountain. Let's roll for random encounters..."
  • "Ehhh, I can't be bothered with random encounters tonight, you arrive safe and sound"

Instead you can have a 5 minute conversation and roll a few dice
"Do you take the direct route although it's tougher terrain or the easy route through the wetlands?"
"We don't want to miss the festival so let's risk it through the tough terrain"
"Okay, let's roll some Endurance checks..."
...
"You sense you are not alone, something else walks this trail! What do you do?"
"Hmmm, we'll continue up the trail but at night we won't light a fire - we need to hide our presence"
"The lack of cooked meals are going to take a toll on your morale, you are no closer to determining if the creatures on the path are in front or behind you"
"What do we do guys? Maybe they are friendly or easy to fight? We can get it over with easily and still make the Festival"
...

And so on. When the party arrive they might have lost a few healing surges, tattered their clothes, or maybe missed the timeline they were aiming for.
Maybe you throw in one NPC or monster encounter, maybe not.

It's not as accurate as playing it out but it feels like it happened and took 5 minutes.
Having to figure out arcane locks and ancient trapped tombs while the monsters quickly approach is another of the classic tropes.
Skill Challenges so easy but can really set up the suspense and starting point of an encounter.

And another quick thing before I ramble on even more! Teamwork!
I find a lot of other games give you the "we're on the same team, but we're smacking monsters separately" vibe.
4e pretty much relies on you all working together to beat encounters. You've got to set up flanks and combat advantage, marks and damage types.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
skwyd42
Paragon Adventurer
Paragon Adventurer
avatar

Posts : 295
Join date : 2013-09-15
Age : 48
Location : Central California.

Character sheet
Name: Alain Smith IV
Class: Vampire
Race: Half-Elf

PostSubject: Re: Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...    Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:38 am

lawlesslands wrote:
I agree with what Fox said, what I love about 4e is the mechanics of the system and it's what I look for everywhere else.

Fox Lee wrote:
And the acknowledgement that no matter the flavour the class was conceived with, I can use its mechanics to express whichever character I think it works for! A system where I can build for what I want to do, not what the designer is pretty sure a character with my job description should be able do.

One of the things that people criticised 4e for was "There's no roleplaying! It's an MMO wannabe!" is what makes it so good.
If you need roleplaying built right in as an intrinsic part of your system then you need to get down to the gym and workout your imagination muscles.
Because the base mechanics are so sound it lets you go wild with how you re-skin and re-fluff anything you want.

4e is great because I feel like it's an engineering manual. I can pull the engine apart, I can analyse vertical or horizontal slices and add new pieces, new mechanisms, alter things. It feels like an oldschool Meccano or Lego kit where you have all these blocks and can build what you want - it makes a lot of other games feel like they give you the bricks, but they're all specialised and only make the one model on the front of the box.

Skill Challenges!
Another great tool in the kit. It's oldschool roleplaying codified into a simple set of mechanics (but whaaaaa, 4e doesn't have roleplaying!). If the party catch you off guard because they want to travel across a mountain range to visit a dwarven stronghold instead of entering the dungeon you spent last night designing then no big deal. I used to find myself torn between two extremes...

  • "Your travels will take you through 11 overland hexes, 4 grassland, 4 highland, 3 mountain. Let's roll for random encounters..."
  • "Ehhh, I can't be bothered with random encounters tonight, you arrive safe and sound"

Instead you can have a 5 minute conversation and roll a few dice
"Do you take the direct route although it's tougher terrain or the easy route through the wetlands?"
"We don't want to miss the festival so let's risk it through the tough terrain"
"Okay, let's roll some Endurance checks..."
...
"You sense you are not alone, something else walks this trail! What do you do?"
"Hmmm, we'll continue up the trail but at night we won't light a fire - we need to hide our presence"
"The lack of cooked meals are going to take a toll on your morale, you are no closer to determining if the creatures on the path are in front or behind you"
"What do we do guys? Maybe they are friendly or easy to fight? We can get it over with easily and still make the Festival"
...

And so on. When the party arrive they might have lost a few healing surges, tattered their clothes, or maybe missed the timeline they were aiming for.
Maybe you throw in one NPC or monster encounter, maybe not.

It's not as accurate as playing it out but it feels like it happened and took 5 minutes.
Having to figure out arcane locks and ancient trapped tombs while the monsters quickly approach is another of the classic tropes.
Skill Challenges so easy but can really set up the suspense and starting point of an encounter.

And another quick thing before I ramble on even more! Teamwork!
I find a lot of other games give you the "we're on the same team, but we're smacking monsters separately" vibe.
4e pretty much relies on you all working together to beat encounters. You've got to set up flanks and combat advantage, marks and damage types.

All of this, yes. Skill Challenges are the best! Although, I will say that they are presented in the core books in a poor manner. And also, my players can't be told that they are in a skill challenge because then they just look down at their character sheets, find their highest skill modifier, and then ask, "Can I use Nature to escape these bandits that are chasing us in town?" or "I want to Stealth past the guards." But that's an issue with the players, not the system.

_________________
-skwyd
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fox Lee
0th-Level Adventurer
0th-Level Adventurer
avatar

Posts : 57
Join date : 2015-12-04
Age : 34
Location : NSW, Australia

Character sheet
Name: Fox Lee
Class: Social Justice Barbarian
Race: Stack of Trolls

PostSubject: Re: Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...    Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:18 pm

lawlesslands wrote:
I agree with what Fox said, what I love about 4e is the mechanics of the system and it's what I look for everywhere else.
One of the things that people criticised 4e for was "There's no roleplaying! It's an MMO wannabe!" is what makes it so good.
If you need roleplaying built right in as an intrinsic part of your system then you need to get down to the gym and workout your imagination muscles.
Because the base mechanics are so sound it lets you go wild with how you re-skin and re-fluff anything you want.

4e is great because I feel like it's an engineering manual. I can pull the engine apart, I can analyse vertical or horizontal slices and add new pieces, new mechanisms, alter things. It feels like an oldschool Meccano or Lego kit where you have all these blocks and can build what you want - it makes a lot of other games feel like they give you the bricks, but they're all specialised and only make the one model on the front of the box.

That's the perfect description XD It's such a character designers toolkit - exactly what I need to enable my RP.

Incidentally, only MMO I actually liked was City of Heroes, which had no fixed races, and broad classes containing the barest minimum of forced flavour. You would build on that by deciding your own power source, picking power sets that matched your concept, designing your own costume with no random "gear" to get in the way, and writing your own origin story for other players to see.

Coincidence? Unlikely! XD

_________________
Fox Lee: The Girl Your Mother Warned You About
Contributor of 4e bugfixes and updates for HeroLab
She Bites ◦ Invincible Ink
GameBriefcase - homebrew, variants, fixes, hacks, and further geekery
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.invincible.ink
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...    

Back to top Go down
 
Because of 4e when I go in to a new fantasy game I look for...
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
4ENCLAVE :: 4th Edition :: 4e General Discussion-
Jump to: