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 CBLoader and part files

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WhiteT73
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:12 pm

Hi,

An update on cbloader, I ended up getting this working. This issue is that the DNS records for cbloader.com aren't functional right now, but if you have some know-how about updating your hosts file you can manually set the IP address for cbloader.com (their IP is 192.185.41.187).
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Garthanos
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:19 pm

hmmmm thats cool...

I personally want a gui for creating ones own part file for the most common uses anyway.

kind of like 4e power tool kit had a different output format.

_________________
Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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Garthanos
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:35 pm

Chris24601 wrote:
Those help a lot actually. Here are the relevant bits of rules code along with a few others I dug up...

     <textstring name="martial,melee:key ability" value="Charisma" />
     <textstring name="multiclass:key ability" value="cha" />
     <textstring name="dilettante:key ability" value="Con,Wis,Cha" />
     <textstring name="melee basic:key ability" value="Strength,Charisma" />
     <textstring name="ranged basic,thrown:key ability" value="dex" />

This gives us enough to cobble together the basic coding for what you'd want to do.

     <textstring name="[WHAT IS BEING CHANGED]:key ability" value="[ABILITY SCORE TO BE USED]" />

Daring Blade shows us that it can be keyed to extremely broad categories... specifically to the power keywords of martial and melee as shown here...

     <textstring name="martial,melee:key ability" value="Charisma" />

Therefore to apply a different key ability to a group of powers you'd simply need to find a keyword those powers shared, or use multiple strings. Probably the easiest way to code such a thing would be as follows...

 <RulesElement name="Any Ability Score Homebrew Feat" type="Feat" internal-id="CDJ_FEAT_01" source="Home Game" revision-date="10/8/2013 11:48:00 PM">
   <specific name="Tier"> Heroic </specific>
   <specific name="Short Description"> Use your highest ability for all powers </specific>
   <specific name="Special" />
   <specific name="type" />
   <specific name="Associated Power Info" />
   <specific name="Associated Powers" />
   <rules>
     <textstring name="martial:key ability" value="Str,Con,Dex,Int,Wis,Cha" />
     <textstring name="arcane:key ability" value="Str,Con,Dex,Int,Wis,Cha" />
     <textstring name="divine:key ability" value="Str,Con,Dex,Int,Wis,Cha" />
     <textstring name="primal:key ability" value="Str,Con,Dex,Int,Wis,Cha" />
     <textstring name="psionic:key ability" value="Str,Con,Dex,Int,Wis,Cha" />
     <textstring name="shadow:key ability" value="Str,Con,Dex,Int,Wis,Cha" />
   </rules>
Whenever you use a power with the martial, arcane, divine, primal, psionic or shadow keywords, you may use your highest ability score in place of the score normally used for the power.
  </RulesElement>
Great - I have named this "Winners/Heroes Play to their Strengths"


_________________
Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:46 pm

Garthanos wrote:
Chris24601 wrote:
Those help a lot actually. Here are the relevant bits of rules code along with a few others I dug up...

     <textstring name="martial,melee:key ability" value="Charisma" />
     <textstring name="multiclass:key ability" value="cha" />
     <textstring name="dilettante:key ability" value="Con,Wis,Cha" />
     <textstring name="melee basic:key ability" value="Strength,Charisma" />
     <textstring name="ranged basic,thrown:key ability" value="dex" />

This gives us enough to cobble together the basic coding for what you'd want to do.

     <textstring name="[WHAT IS BEING CHANGED]:key ability" value="[ABILITY SCORE TO BE USED]" />

Daring Blade shows us that it can be keyed to extremely broad categories... specifically to the power keywords of martial and melee as shown here...

     <textstring name="martial,melee:key ability" value="Charisma" />

Therefore to apply a different key ability to a group of powers you'd simply need to find a keyword those powers shared, or use multiple strings. Probably the easiest way to code such a thing would be as follows...

 <RulesElement name="Any Ability Score Homebrew Feat" type="Feat" internal-id="CDJ_FEAT_01" source="Home Game" revision-date="10/8/2013 11:48:00 PM">
   <specific name="Tier"> Heroic </specific>
   <specific name="Short Description"> Use your highest ability for all powers </specific>
   <specific name="Special" />
   <specific name="type" />
   <specific name="Associated Power Info" />
   <specific name="Associated Powers" />
   <rules>
     <textstring name="martial:key ability" value="Str,Con,Dex,Int,Wis,Cha" />
     <textstring name="arcane:key ability" value="Str,Con,Dex,Int,Wis,Cha" />
     <textstring name="divine:key ability" value="Str,Con,Dex,Int,Wis,Cha" />
     <textstring name="primal:key ability" value="Str,Con,Dex,Int,Wis,Cha" />
     <textstring name="psionic:key ability" value="Str,Con,Dex,Int,Wis,Cha" />
     <textstring name="shadow:key ability" value="Str,Con,Dex,Int,Wis,Cha" />
   </rules>
Whenever you use a power with the martial, arcane, divine, primal, psionic or shadow keywords, you may use your highest ability score in place of the score normally used for the power.
  </RulesElement>
Great - I have named this "Winners/Heroes Play to their Strengths"

I really like that. I'll probably play with this a bit later, but for now, wow, I really like the direction this would take 4e lol.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:49 pm

So I guess we could ask some char op types what broken hybrids or multiclassing it might enable ;p

_________________
Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:02 pm

This is so beyond broken it's not even funny.

First off: Dex-Twin Strike melee Ranger. Hellooooooooo nice AC
Con based Fighter will be very happy
Int Warlock at Epic will be bonkers
Str/Dex Sorcerer would also be very strong.

It breaks a lot of things, but not to that high of a level. Okay, what am I saying this feat probably breaks the game over its knee.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:04 pm

heheh... thought it might ROFL 

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:07 pm

I like backgrounds like Auspicious Birth (an incredibly common element of most mythic heroes).

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:08 pm

cyvaris wrote:
This is so beyond broken it's not even funny.

First off: Dex-Twin Strike melee Ranger. Hellooooooooo nice AC
Con based Fighter will be very happy
Int Warlock at Epic will be bonkers
Str/Dex Sorcerer would also be very strong.

It breaks a lot of things, but not to that high of a level. Okay, what am I saying this feat probably breaks the game over its knee.
I think the term "Transformative" comes to mind.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:10 pm

I think it would be cool to have a index file which includes 4enclave and a compilation of "fun" part files with our custom awesomeness in them.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:12 pm

Transformative is a good word. It's late, I'm tired, but yeah, picking your main stat is just silly for ways to break the game.

Dex based fighter anyone? Give him a Spiked Chain maybe? Yowzers 

Hey, hey, I can finally play an Int Ruinpriest! The one class build I've always wanted!

Also, Custom Awesomeness? Come on, this needs to be made a core part of the game right now!
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:16 pm

All secondary power effects need to key off a different stat than your main one (auxiliary clause)

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:14 pm

That....sort of fixes things to a degree and certainly alleviates some of the insanity. Still Dex-melee ranger is heinously good. Course Ranger is good anyway soooo.



Also, any chance anyone has a "blank" template for a Paragon Path .part file?

I'm trying to rewrite one that I pulled out, but I'm going cross eyed.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:29 am

Dex is too much an uber stat anyway... initiative is more of a mental state to my thinking, decisiveness and agressiveness and whose ability is better are more related to who gets/takes the first openings (I used to use highest to hit in a game I was making up).

That plus the need to reign in stacking bonuses / multi-attacking is where I have considered house rules... is where the ranger you are talking about is op.



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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:08 am

Yes, the one that I wrote as a sample would be quite transformative. However, bear in mind that what the person was originally asking for was more akin to the ladders from Ultramodern4 where its selection changes it to ONE other attribute and only for certain powers. I could totally see leaving certain Uber-stats out of said choice list (ex. don't offer Con as one of the choices at all and possibly leave out Dex as well, though that would be REALLY hard to justify).

I could see limiting it to certain categories as well. For example, there might be a feat/theme/background that allows you to use the better of Strength or Dexterity for all martial powers, another that allows the better of Intelligence or Charisma for arcane powers, and a third that allows the better of Wisdom or Charisma for divine powers.

Or you could have more off-the-wall options like "Spatial Awareness" which changes all ranged weapon powers to use their Wisdom score if its higher than the normal ability for the power (I could see this being a boon to certain high-Wis fighter builds... giving them some better ranged options).

cyvaris wrote:
Chris, the info from Daring blade looks perfect for what I want...at least in someway. It doesn't look like I can really hit it for specific weapons, but at the very least I can do what you did with the highest ability score/certain ability scores. I want to make them themes, but the feat works well to tinker with.
Actually you can limit it to only when certain things are equipped. You just need to add a condition to it. This isn't the exact code because I don't have access to it right this second (I'll check on it later and post it here) but it roughly equates to "requires=item equipped:heavy blade" being added in after the other bits but before the closed bracket.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:26 am

Another possibility might be making such a feat based stat switch only apply to "To Hit" or only "Damage" or only "Secondary Effects"

I think their are two philosophy/premises in competition
One is indeed that "Winners/Heros play to their strengths" and "Versatility Brings Empowerment"
--> you almost need to mechanically support the prior premise but the latter tends to happen automatically.


I figure what stat you use is the first flavor front for how you are performing any of your abilities it is the mechanically simplist implication of style.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:27 am

There is already CON Warlocks how much do they need other stats? and are they over powered?

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:34 am

One encouragement for diversification of stats I had considered was to have 2 of each of the NADs. Your primary Fortitude is based on the higher ... when the enemy has you at disadvantage you use your secondary Fortitude based on the other stat.

Its a minor thing but I consider the dynamic of conflict between the two competing outlooks interesting

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:38 am

Speaking of stat diversity

I would like more martial powers to not target AC.... reflex and fortitude and will? why not...

I think intimidations and deceptions affecting will are perfectly fine elements of martial attacks.


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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:36 am

As I understand it they had originally looked at dropping AC entirely with 4e (much as Star Wars SAGA did) but it proved a sacred cow too far (plus way too many things targeted Reflex which made Dex even more of a superstat) so AC was retained for 'normal' attacks (and heavy armor allowed those with lower dex/int scores to keep up).

Personally, if you're going to all the effort of having every character use their best stat for attack/damage you may as well just go look at the companion character part file that's out there and just give everyone a static +3+level to attacks/defenses and only have the stats apply to skill checks... The net result is probably going to be about the same and the coding is virtually done already.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:42 am

Chris24601 wrote:
As I understand it they had originally looked at dropping AC entirely with 4e (much as Star Wars SAGA did) but it proved a sacred cow too far (plus way too many things targeted Reflex which made Dex even more of a superstat) so AC was retained for 'normal' attacks (and heavy armor allowed those with lower dex/int scores to keep up).
Hmmm Damage resistance comes to mind - having it be the providence of heavy armor styled defense - I know another entire CAN OF WORMS in addition to sacred cow impingement.

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“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:41 am

Garthanos wrote:
Hmmm Damage resistance comes to mind - having it be the providence of heavy armor styled defense - I know another entire CAN OF WORMS in addition to sacred cow impingement.
Not just a can of worms, but a major balancing headache since you now have to balance that resistance with the flat-out avoidance of high dex/int characters over the course of battles AND account for the prospect of builds that can make use of both high dex/int AND the resistance from heavy armor.

If we were to break away from the d20/D&D sacred cows a bit I think the best solution would be to do away with the rolled dice for damage system and replace it with a margin-of-success based damage system... effectively turning each point of defense into a degree of damage resistance... instead of merely a pass/fail threshold.

Such a system could even eliminate the need for a critical hit system (an extremely high margin of success will inflict much more damage than a marginal hit automatically). Margin of success could also be used to determine duration of ongoing effects (ex. 1 turn/5 MoS) or severity of conditions inflicted (ex. dazed 0-4 MoS, stunned 5+ MoS).

Just to re-iterate, I am not advocating for such a thing as part of 4E. This is something you'd need to build into the system from the ground up in order to actually make it work effectively.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:12 pm

Chris24601 wrote:


If we were to break away from the d20/D&D sacred cows a bit I think the best solution would be to do away with the rolled dice for damage system and replace it with a margin-of-success based damage system... effectively turning each point of defense into a degree of damage resistance... instead of merely a pass/fail threshold.
Did a combat system using that while back and it was also hitpointless (along the lines of rolling your save against the effect) Had some in common with M&M... but was deadlier. You also rolled after the battle to avoid effects setting in and actually disabling you.

Hmm mayhaps the damage resistance and ac are then effectively the same mechanic not sure that is satisfying.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:02 pm

Garthanos wrote:
Did a combat system using that while back and it was also hitpointless (along the lines of rolling your save against the effect) Had some in common with M&M... but was deadlier. You also rolled after the battle to avoid effects setting in and actually disabling you.  

Hmm mayhaps the damage resistance and ac are then effectively the same mechanic not sure that is satisfying.
Barring the edge cases of powers/items providing limited resist, AC being the same as damage resistance is pretty much the same thing now in 4E. The only difference is that its completely binary. It either stops all of the damage completely or allows all of the damage through unimpeded.

Personally, I'm thinking more akin to Dreampod9's Jovian Chronicles only with hit points instead of thresholds instead of Mutants and Masterminds (which can't quite escape its d20 roots).

In Jovian Chronicles all weapons have a damage rating; a dagger might be x1, a short sword x2, a longsword x3, a greatsword x4 and a greataxe x5. When you hit, you multiply your margin of success by the multiplier and this is how much damage you inflict (ex. you swing your longsword and beat the target's defense by 4 so you inflict 12 damage to them). In Jovian Chronicles you'd compare this number to certain thresholds to determine how much damage the target takes, but I think it could work just as well if it simply subtracted from a pool of hit points.

In such a system, magic weapons might deal more damage either through increasing your accuracy (increasing your margin of success) or increasing your multiplier (increasing the damage when you do hit without making you hit more often) or both depending on the power of the item. Powers that deal multiple weapon dice for damage could instead increase or even multiply the damage rating.

The result is that armor and dodging don't just keep you from being hit, they also reduce the damage you take when you do get hit... just like armor and dodging actually do in real life. In such a system I'd probably want hits to happen slightly more often (say 70% instead of 60%) but because things that barely hit do very little damage it would balance out with the "you only take damage if you are hit, but when you are hit its often for a LOT of damage."

You also don't need a separate factor for armor or dodging... they can combine as a single Reflex defense and I could certainly see armor reducing various Fortitude related effects as well. Indeed, different types of armor could provide different bonuses to Fort and Reflex based on their construction (a padded armor might have better bonuses to resist crushing attacks vs. Fortitude, but almost no bonus to Reflex against cutting attacks, while chain armor would offer more Reflex to resist cutting attacks, but less Fort to resist crushing effects).

It should also be noted that if you wanted the damage to be a bit more predictable, you'd probably also want to introduce a probability curve in some fashion, either through opposed rolls or rolling multiple dice (i.e. replacing the 1d20 with 2d10 or 3d6). Personally, I'd go with opposed rolls because it will allow for the occasional truly spectacular hit (the most extreme being when the attacker rolls a 20 and the defender rolls a 1).

Again, none of this has any bearing on the cbloader or even 4E at all. Its more a hypothetical starting point for a combat system if I were to actually build an RPG of my own (well, another RPG of my own... I already have my near complete rewrite of Mage the Ascension under my belt as well).
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PostSubject: Re: CBLoader and part files   Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:43 pm

Thanks for the elaboration... (I will say from a functional point i consider multipliers quite problematic)

I never the less used damage equal amount over threshold divided by 2 (not following my own advice)... and modified by weapon type.. ofcourse the intent was to get a DC modifier for a damage resistance roll.

Having armor provide different benefits by damage type would probably tweak a few old school fans buttons.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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