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 Favorite D&D Class?

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itaav
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:25 am

Warlocks, since their flavor is amazing, and their required stats line up nicely with my two favorite races. (Warforged and Dragonborn)

Wizards come in second, simply because they have so much options available for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:39 pm

I love rangers, just for the aesthetic. I bought my DnD books (I'm pretty new, I'm starting w/ 4E - but I'd like to think I know a bit about the history of the game) just so I could be an Elf archer!
I have a feeling once I get to play my new Wizard next Sunday I'm gonna like Wizards more though. His character sheet is pretty cool... if someone could show me a better level 1 power than Flaming Sphere, I'd love to see it.

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:26 am

Galstaff wrote:
if someone could show me a better level 1 power than Flaming Sphere, I'd love to see it.

Sleep.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:30 am

Fardiz wrote:
Galstaff wrote:
if someone could show me a better level 1 power than Flaming Sphere, I'd love to see it.

Sleep.

Nope.  With Sleep, there's a 55% chance of the guy getting off with 2 squares of movement for a turn (assuming no ST mods)... even if he doesn't, it's very unlikely that he wouldn't wake up after a few turns (well, I'll do the math in the spoiler below if you really want to see it)
The Math, Assuming the Attack Hits:
 
Now, of course your melee fighters can perform Coup de Grace over and over again, but a fellow monster can screech to wake the monster(s) up (Player's Handbook 1 page 263, "Sleeping and Waking Up").  If it's a monster by itself, it's going to have a lot of bulk, so while you most likely will make a huge dent in its HP, 4E monsters have A LOT OF HP (which is a good thing).

Now, the case for Flaming Sphere.  You can make a BALL OF FIRE that can move 5 ft/second and CAN'T BE KILLED.  Unless an ally knocks the target out of the way somehow (or the creature readies its move action, which is an easy way to set a trap w/ your fellow party members), you can force a creature to take damage just by moving next to it (Any creature that starts its turn next to the flaming sphere takes 1d4+Intelligence modifier fire damage.)  You can sustain this flaming sphere for just a minor each turn until the end of the encounter!  If you want you can even just attack w/ the sphere!  IMO, this is the best level 1 power for a boss fight because you can use your move+minor to take this sphere (which functions as an immortal human w/ a dagger), PLUS use your regular attack.  W/ an INT score of 18 (perfectly reasonable for a wizard), you can just use this guy + Magic Missile to deal 5-20 damage per turn (5 because Magic Missile can miss - Flaming Sphere can't when using when-creature-starts-turn attack)

I'll admit, Sleep is an awesome power, but Flaming Sphere beats it out.  My wizard's dailies are Acid Arrow and Flaming Sphere, but if I had chosen Expanded Spellbook as my feat I would have definitely gotten Sleep.

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:18 am

Flaming Sphere is not ally friendly. If you have melee character in the party and are fighting monster with forced movement abilities, you are likely doing damage to your allies as well - a double edged sword so to speak...
And moving it costs your movement. Gets you in a position where you can choose between putting the flaming sphere in a better position, putting yourself out of trouble/in a better spot, and attacking.
I think I would take Fountain of Flame over flaming sphere - ally friendly, nice damage, and leaves a zone. The only downside comared to flaming sphere is not being able to move the zone. The damage output is much better.
But I agree with Sleep as the top wizard a level 1 daily. It can potentially end an encounter. I've been in a game where that essentially happened - my son used sleep in a big encounter with a drow priestess and her minions. It was a set piece final battle. He hit 5 creatures, 4 saved. The one that didn't was the big bad. I coupe de grace'd her with my half-orc berzerker in the next round. The rest was just clean up. The ability to completely take enemies out of the battle is epic. Damage and zones can't compete with that.
TjD
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:07 pm

Durriken wrote:
Flaming Sphere is not ally friendly.  If you have melee character in the party and are fighting monster with forced movement abilities, you are likely doing damage to your allies as well - a double edged sword so to speak...
And moving it costs your movement.  Gets you in a position where you can choose between putting the flaming sphere in a better position, putting yourself out of trouble/in a better spot, and attacking.
I think I would take Fountain of Flame over flaming sphere - ally friendly, nice damage, and leaves a zone. The only downside comared to flaming sphere is not being able to move the zone.  The damage output is much better.
But I agree with Sleep as the top wizard a level 1 daily.  It can potentially end an encounter.  I've been in a game where that essentially happened - my son used sleep in a big encounter with a drow priestess and her minions.  It was a set piece final battle.  He hit 5 creatures, 4 saved.  The one that didn't was the big bad.  I coupe de grace'd her with my half-orc berzerker in the next round.  The rest was just clean up.  The ability to completely take enemies out of the battle is epic.  Damage and zones can't compete with that.
TjD
Okay, now I'm genuinely questioning my choices... should I replace Flaming Sphere with Sleep? The only doubt I have left about Sleep is that in the event of a miss you can do a LOT less than with Flaming Sphere.

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:22 pm

Sleep is indeed pretty swingy swingy (not as bad as it was in yester year)... the gambling element is where some get their excitement. Me I am happy with reliable.

Has anybody reflavored sleep?

Doctor Strange has arguably 3 or 4 Binding powers in his basic spell set which could be reflavored as Sleep which targets Fortitude ... sleep which targets Will and sleep which targets Reflexes.
OK since they target a different defense Crimson bands of citorak(Will) and the Ribbons of Raggador (reflex) are different magics since they have diffeent resistance factors. Sure hes a Mary sue

Did I mention Marvel Superheros would be great using 4e..  Cool

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One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:34 pm

Sleep causes a monster to be unconscious (save ends). This does not end if monsters make a loud noise.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:49 pm

Fardiz wrote:
Sleep causes a monster to be unconscious (save ends). This does not end if monsters make a loud noise.
Why shouldn't it? tongue 

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:02 pm

Because they are not asleep. You are conflating fluff with mechanics.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:06 pm

Fardiz wrote:
Because they are not asleep. You are conflating fluff with mechanics.
Player's Handbook 1, Page 263, Sleeping and Waking Up
When you're asleep, you're unconscious (see "Conditions," page 277).  You wake up if you take damage or if you make a successful Perception check (with a -5 penalty) to hear sounds of danger.  An ally can wake you up by shaking you (a standard action) or by shouting (a free action).
So unless I'm completely misinterpreting this, you can end unconsciousness by getting shouted at, or, something I overlooked earlier, taking damage.
This doesn't seem like "fluff"...

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:15 pm

When you're asleep you are unconscious. When you're unconscious you're not always asleep. The sleep spell causes you to be unconscious it does not cause you to be asleep.

Unconsciousness is defined in the RC:

"Unconscious
The creature is helpless.
The creature can’t take actions.
The creature takes a -5 penalty to all defenses.
The creature is unaware of its surroundings.
The creature falls prone, if possible.
The creature can’t flank.

This condition applies when a creature is knocked out, cast into a magical slumber, or otherwise incapacitated totally.
A creature that has fallen asleep naturally—as opposed to being knocked unconscious by a power or other effect—is unconscious but not totally deprived of awareness; it can use its passive Perception to hear things, but with a -5 penalty." (RC234)

Note the difference between magical slumber (which is the fluff of the sleep spell) and natural sleep (which is what PHB263 is talking about).
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:49 pm

Galstaff wrote:

Now, the case for Flaming Sphere.  You can make a BALL OF FIRE that can move 5 ft/second and CAN'T BE KILLED.

Flaming Sphere is pretty cool, but it would actually be better if they could attack the sphere. Remember as a Controller you do want to hinder them attacking your allies or even yourself. So every attack on something else is better than an attack on your group. It is an important advantage of summons. Enemies waste their attacks on them. Even if they do kill the summoned creature they have just wasted some rounds on something that isn't really there.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Thu May 01, 2014 6:27 pm

chaotic evil Teifling Warlock is very fun
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Thu May 01, 2014 8:22 pm

When I 'discovered' 4e, I fell in love with the Primal classes, and the Shifter race. My first character was a Longtooth Warden, then I built a Razorclaw Seeker that was pretty fun to play. When my Seeker got kacked by a bunch of Orcs, I reverted to my first love and am currently playing an Essentials Storm Warpriest Dwarf.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:52 am

PALADIIIN

Oh, how I craved chaotic-Good paladinry all through 3.x. While our GM's homebrew "Adherent" class* did scratch that itch, I always hoped to see an inclusive Paladin "canonised" by a future edition, and 4e delivered that in style. The Str-based Paladin is a veritable buffet of things I love. I have enjoyed all my 4e characters so far, but my favourite by far was Marshal Sterling, Holy Warrior of Perfect Violence. Because there's no "minimising suffering" like ending a fight Blood-of-the-Mighty fast :p

Honourary mentions to two other things from my "most wanted" list during 3e: Warden and Avenger. A druid-esque class that's all about beating face in beast form (without all this spell list nonsense), and a righteously masochistic assassin who runs around in nothing but cloth and faith (I tried many times to hack such a thing together in 3e, but not even the Book of Exalted Deeds really delivered).

(*Short version: used a cleric-style domain list to construct a supernatural warrior based on the player's choice of ideals. Roughly the same supernatural ability/martial prowess/spell allotment as the original paladin, but more variety than "I hope you like righteous bigotry and magic horses".)

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:14 pm

Swordmages, easily. I'm a self-professed battlemage nut. Conceptually, the warlock is a neat class, and if I couldn't play a swordmage, I'd go with a paladin, a warden, or a fighter, in that order.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:18 pm

Ooh wait, I forgot about the Monk!

I admit, I was sceptical of the monk being assigned the psionic power source at first, but I made my peace with it and in the end it wasn't too hard to get behind. Meanwhile, playing a monk was amazing. Tons of area effects, PBAoE At-Wills, and heaps of special/increased movement options. I also got mine a dash of thunder damage on every attack, so he could increase the area of his Bursts. Holy cow, having an At-Will that hits everything in Burst 2 is freaking incredible. I went where I wanted and hit EVERYTHING, and it was gooooood.

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:35 pm

It's a tough call between the Cleric or Paladin. I can relate to the dedication represented by each.

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:32 pm

Hybrid Wink - OK actually Warlord... but i do love hybriding.

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One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:48 pm

Dual-Weapon Fighter, mainly because I like wielding two weapons. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:42 am

I'm hard pressed to find a class that doesn't have at least a little to like. If I have to pick a single favorite, it's battlemind, but I would play any defender, except cavelier because its just completely ineffective. I'd also take any leader, though I find runepriest a bit awkward. Not ineffective, just awkward. I tend to shy away from strikers and prefer controller that excel at debuffs, forced movement, and zones over damage.
I have not spent much time with hybrids, but what little I have it seems that there is far more potential for garbage than good stuff, and fortunately not a whole lot of potential to create anything that is significantly better than a regular character.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:48 pm

Durriken wrote:

I have not spent much time with hybrids, but what little I have it seems that there is far more potential for garbage than good stuff, and fortunately not a whole lot of potential to create anything that is significantly better than a regular character.
TjD
You certainly have to be careful but its got pretty good bounds on the upper end and that is good. I normally only optimize to the point of being functional the rest is generally towards concept though, so take that as you will.

Hybrids offer unique possibilities and the underlying core to support some rather different flavor.

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One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:48 pm

Hybrids are there for if you want roughly equal amounts of both classes, basically. Covering for where the multiclassing rules are weak (others' mileage may vary, but I see 4e multiclassing as being for splashes only, lest it become a huge waste of feats). It seems to me that, outside of some niche builds, hybrids are better for hitting flavour/concept goals than for charop. Like a lot of 4e content really, since expansions tended to add more variety than power.

I haven't played a hybrid, myself - I did build one for a prospective came, but in the end I wound up going a with a single-class build instead. I have certainly mangled my fair share of builds in order to grab a certain mechanical advantage* I do prefer simplicity and elegance wherever possible. Hybrids are... for serving other priorities ;p

(*The monk I mentioned earlier springs to mind, who took the "Malek-Keth Janissary" Paragon Path to get a dusting of thunder damage on his weapon and enable Resounding Thunder, because the GM was too twitchy to just allow thunder on a monk-appropriate weapon.)

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite D&D Class?   Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:30 am

Did I fail to mention Swordmages... how could I not mention my shielding swordmage Wink

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One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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