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 How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?

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Garthanos
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PostSubject: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:15 am

Anyone up for it?

An Early Celtic Legend and Myth with some fairly well defined but broad capabilities.

My sig mentions some of his broad capacities... but more details (including what is meant by sorceror are to be had)

a physician or healer (healing skill and a martial practice like one which emulates the remove affliction ritual even allowing one to regrow limbs).

a champion (a duelist or warrior) - favoring long weaponry likes spears and lightning.

a harpist, a poet and historian-story-teller (history skill might be all thats required - but bard class certain very appropriate)

a sorcerer - lightning, shape shifting-(possibly not for combat) also vanishing and perhaps mental illusions. (his own men werent certain all of what he might accomplish - the ritualist constantly hunting for more might be appropriate in this as well as a hybrid martial caster or bard with multi-classing turned up)

a craftsman and a smith but also a carpenter and wright (generalized worker able to support others in large scale finely hone productions like ship, fortification and chariot building and other such constructions)
(might be via Martial Practices ).

cupbearer (honest and perceptive, a poison tester)

a leader of men... his trickery and precision war strategy and tactics allowed the Tuatha to win against foes that had defeated them many times before

He was seen as master of all trades jack of none.

When asked what he considered his most important arts.. he included some very high endurance athletic feats.


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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:53 am

Interestingly the principle mentioned application of a huge many of his skills (aside from the Warrior and Leader of men) was perhaps on a diplomacy challenge to gain admitance to Tara and Join the Tuatha de Danaan.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:59 am

Fake Skald, possible multiclass into Artificer and Sorcerer.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:33 am

Skald lets you take Bard of All Trades +3 to all untrained skills (for a total of +4 to any you aren't trained in) and is both Martial (for Martial Practices) and trained in Arcana (for Ritual Casting) and proficient with simple weapons (including spears) and with long and short swords, bows, chainmail and small shields.

Given his background he should certainly be a human with fey blood (i.e. a half-elf) and this gives him the dilettante power (chosen from sorcerer if you want a flashy lightning attack; versatile mastery at paragon is a given) and rock solid Con/Cha for his stats.

For your theme take Scholar to eventually get all the languages and training in most of the knowledge-based skills (good for skill powers) and then take the Traveler's Insight feat for a +10 bonus to Insight checks by level 10 (presuming the default number of languages in the game).

That's still leaves any multi-classing and paragon path wide open to make it even better.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:18 pm

Havent looked at the Skald figured a bard of some sort was kind of a done deal,

What is the main benefit the Skald brings to the build? since both of you mentioned it. (ahh I see you mentioned it being martial so easy access to both ritual and martial practices - that is nice)

I have done Bard with Druid Mc'ing to get shape shifting before (turning in to a bird is classic) for the design of Taliesen. Lugh  does feel more martial than Taliesen who is virtually the same character as Merlin (but younger)

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:23 pm

Garthanos wrote:
What is the main benefit the Skald brings to the build?
The Skald Aura has more utility past healing than just taking Majstic Word for healing would afford, which allows for more weapon shenanigans, which helps sell the warrior aspect more than the normal Bard can.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:00 pm

Hmmm Tuathan is a very interesting Theme - interestingly both for that dual roll on Endurance checks and the animal forms (that's quite a competitor vs the linguistic capabilities of the Scholar).

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Not impressed with the Charisma based lighting options for that dilletante power Cry
Sorcerous Lightning has a Dex based augment unless that too can be adjusted by Adept Dilettante?


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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:34 pm

Garthanos wrote:
Not impressed with the Charisma based lighting options for that dilletante power :cry:
Sorcerous Lightning has a Dex based augment unless that too can be adjusted by Adept Dilettante?

Nope, Dex rider would stay sadly. Might want to look at Static Charge from HotEC instead. Still a Sorcerer power, but it's all Charisma based. Also multi targeting :)
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:19 pm

Static Charge? hmmm.

The Warlock power Chromatic Bolt is CHA based with a CON on the secondary target which works pretty well (we re-power things at my house so if I want that crackling bolt to do lightning damage not a problem.)

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:47 pm

Oh, well that opens up a wide variety of things then to be honest. I suppose the real question is are we looking for flavor, or function?
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:36 am

I like controller effects I guess the electricity of the effect jangles muscles slowing the target and the boom of thunder deafens them similar effects can be pulled as lightning but so can the flash of the lightning blind etc ... I want it functional under the hood to a reasonable degree. The character is going Cha fairly high, Con a high second and Int a fair third. (but we dont heavily optimize overmuch here abouts).

I can add a new power thats balanced right to the character builder if I must but having it directly based on existing one with simple change is better etc.

I am wondering what multi-classing to use if the Tuathan gives shape shifting and a encounter power gives a touch of lightning. I am actually thinking the skald is too bardy... wonder how best to pull the Martial Feel.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:44 am

You could always hybrid Resourceful Warlord and take the Daring Blade Paragon Path to use Charisma for martial attack rolls.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:54 pm

Now that you mention the Warlord - they made this young-man high king and leader of this elite group of uber-heroics rather akin to the round table knights and also like the Asguardian elites.

Lugh was a consummate player/inventor of a game similar to chess.

I usually build Odin/Wotan as a Warlord and Odin may actually be another reflection of the same character the association with both spears and lightning and lore and even inventiveness are all there. Odin invented/discovered magical poetry aka runes. Odin has a much grander death. And killed his father whereas Lugh killed his own Grandfather.

I am fond of Warlords always tempted to build them in to characters hmmm.

I might have to investigate that route pulling in the skill via multi-classing with bard, hybriding might not be necessary. Hard to emphasize CON strength is pretty tempting in this case.

One thing about versatile heros they really ought to be blazingly MAD based on their flavor.




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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:00 pm

Garthanos wrote:
One thing about versatile heros they really ought to be blazingly MAD based on their flavor.
Well if it's just for a heroic tier game, it can work well. Past paragon, they fall flat on the mechanical side of things... real shame :/
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:06 pm

ToeSama wrote:
Garthanos wrote:
One thing about versatile heros they really ought to be blazingly MAD based on their flavor.
Well if it's just for a heroic tier game, it can work well. Past paragon, they fall flat on the mechanical side of things... real shame :/
I think the character is even more a Paragon to Epic one.

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:08 pm

So what are possible fixes for that decay... disconnect to hit from attributes?

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Garthanos wrote:
So what are possible fixes for that decay... disconnect to hit from attributes?
Since most of the character lies in being skillful, using my suggestion to have skills run off of two or three ability scores/mods each instead of just one. Divorcing accuracy from abilities might help for combat, but your skills would still be stretched out too thin to work in epic with that much MAD going on.

A bonus feat might also help them to get started with some of the other flavor aspects, like any multiclass or hybrid talents needed.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:52 pm

ToeSama wrote:
Garthanos wrote:
So what are possible fixes for that decay... disconnect to hit from attributes?
Since most of the character lies in being skillful, using my suggestion to have skills run off of two or three ability scores/mods each instead of just one.
Ah that's on my good stuff list for other reasons as well .... I seem to recall somebody had come up with a list where you select from 2 attributes for each of the skills. I also like the idea that the attribute in use varies by the actual task and the skill is a bonus to that.

Want to name a particular beast its not a wisdom check that is an Int based nature use. Want to track one that's a wisdom based nature use. Want to convince one to help you that's a charisma based one.


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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: How would you design Lugh the Many-skilled?   Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:54 pm

Long Arm Martial Paragon path... flavor nice. (one of characters nicks is Long Arm)

Arcane Lance for Dilettante ability swordmages - flavor nice with mounted benefits..  slowing enemy effect not bad  (Lugh is a likely precursor of Lancelot too btw)

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Born To Be Kings and Heros -- From the Ashes Phoenix
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.

One suspects Lugh Long-hand Samildánach (a wright/carpenter, a sailor, a smith/bronze craftsman, a healer, a champion, a harpist, a poet/historian, a sorcerer, cupbearer) would agree.
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